I agree with everything Monsteri said, except that the damage done should only be increased just a bit.

For example, the damage could be 20 to joints, 30 to body, and 50 to head, instead of the usual 14, 24, and 49 damage dealt with each bullet.

Also "humen" is not a word. The plural is humans.
P.S. Jake's Assassins died. Jake gave up.

yeah, but the enemy fireing at that 3 block thick wall used to have rifles.

I usually build my walls two or three blocks thick. They tend to stand up to quite a bit of gunfire, even at the current amount of damage from the SMG. 6 is probably my personal favorite number for SMG damage, since the SMG's about half as powerful as the rifle against players.

@1337101

actually 8 block damage for SMG isnt excessive cuz the SMG has about 30 bullets in one clip and its a spread fire automatic weapon so imagine three SMGs fireing at one wall, the wall is rubble in about 5 seconds with the current block damage.

@mrt8062: 8 seems excessive. Monsteri's suggestion of five hits is more reasonable.

block damage needs to be like 8 other than that total agree ment

I don't see anything wrong with the SMG's ability against other players, myself.

I've found that it's most effective at 50% to 75% of render distance, and for ambushes. I was able to kill all the way to fog even with the 0.53 implementation, which was less accurate than the current 0.54 implementation.

The only thing I think is really neccesary is for it to be less damaging to blocks. 5 or 6 shots would be more appropriate, I think, so I agree with you there.

Long range: SMG is "plink" gun, rifle rules
Med range: About equal
Short range: SMG devastates rifle.

Yes I agree, but I wouldn't be talking about devastation or ruling, I'd talk about an ADVANTAGE. So rifle has an advantage in long ranges, it's pretty equal in half-fog or so, and SMG has advantage in close combat. Yeah.

As it is, you can SMG snipe if you are careful enough, and if you are very accurate you will have more success at CQB with a rifle.

Well, I've got some excellent backshoot situations with smg, but if the enemy has been even just 20 blocks away, and I hit with every shot, and he has rifle, he still has had a lot of time to turn around and rape me, which many times happened.
Having to shoot 15 times to half-fog with very inaccurate smg to get a kill is.. just wrong. Rifle has the advantage in every range right now tbh, and that's what I want to get a rid of.

Edit: And yes, handicap.

After some debate in IRC, I can agree with Monsteri.

The SMG can do the job at close range, but if you have an experienced opponent, he'll most likely just reduce your mental capabilities with a single bullet to the head.

What I noticed about the SMG, is that the recoil is pretty large while standing. This wouldn't hurt otherwise, but it rendered the SMG quite useless in defense, as you couldn't effectively hit enemies at mid ranges even tough you otherwise had the upper hand. However I like the amount of recoil while crouching, since it prevents SMG users from sniping you out from your foxholes and bunkers but they can still land a shot.

I agree mostly, on block damage being lower than person damage.

But I dislike low accuracy weapons as a rule, the randomness causes rage and casualizes the game(skill is rewarded less). The recoil I can accept sometimes, if it is controllable.

As I've said in the past I would prefer if there were a range limit and after that damage went down sharply, so that:

Long range: SMG is "plink" gun, rifle rules
Med range: About equal
Short range: SMG devastates rifle.

As it is, you can SMG snipe if you are careful enough, and if you are very accurate you will have more success at CQB with a rifle.

Sorry if there are existing threads for this, didn't want to search because this forum is so full of shit.

So, I suggest the SMG to have more damage to humen and less damage to blocks.
5 shots required to a block to destroy it would be fine.
SMG takes somewhere around 20 damage when near enemy, perhaps should be something around 30. This because face an enemy with rifle while wearing smg, even at half-fog, you will most likely lose.
Face a rifleman at corner, even if you're skilled you have a high change to lose. Of course SMG guy should have in this an advantage. Making the damage higher to humen and less to blocks would solve a bit these issues with griefing and poor SMG lovers. Right now it's good only for covering fire or against another SMG user.
The recoil of it it's fine I think, it just takes skill to use and after few rounds, I got to use it too. But compared to smg, rifle is a death-machine.

Right?