I also thought of a counter to Devas's building argument. I try to build a intel tower with many supports, i could have 50 supports. A griefer can go in and keep destroying those 50 suppoorts and take it down. If I shoot them, they just come back and grief until it is destroyed. I can't be bothered to votekick this idiot as I have to keep building to keep the structure alive. Oh, what's this? I've run out of blocks? Now he can grief it while I get more. Building an anti grief structure takes way too many blocks to be effective. Besides, they can just dig out the ground anyway and it's even harder to stop.

Actually Kaede, I think you had a good idea at the start of the second page: Make accounts optional, and let server admins decide how to handle unregistered users. Unregistered users could have a filtered server list that shows the servers they're allowed into, and they can register later if they want access to servers with "higher standards" :-)

The incentive to register is, besides access to better servers of course, that you have a unique identity so people can't go around on servers impersonating you. I'm sure there could be more benefits, such as access to the forum (why not integrate forum and game accounts like Quake Live?)

Yeah, I guess so, huh. Hmm... wish there was an easy button for this.

Not all IPs are static, in fact most aren't. So if a players IP changes, there goes their
"registration".

I just thought of something new, that might be a lot easier to implement than an actual registration. What about a kind of pseudo registration where you "sign up" and your IP address gets added to a white list to use the servers. This would be far easier to implement than a full-blown registration system, right?

If I were Ben, I'd make pressing escape open up a context menu ;)

The client should detect connecting to localhost, and then give the admin privileges based on that (such as /kick or /ban).

One nice thing that could come with registration is designation of moderators (access to /kick) and designation of administrators (access to /kick and /ban).

I can respect that argument stack.
I only have one thing to say, we've only had what, two or three people creating alternate accounts to troll the forums, right? A pretty small percentage willing to go those lengths just to be a jerk is something you can't ignore.

And yeah, the server implementation would be difficult, but in the end I think it's what the game really needs. I don't envision this staying "anon's game" forever, because that's technically what it is right now. Except the roles are reversed and instead of Anons looking down on "namefags", people with names look down on the deuce scum. At least, that's how I look at it.

Kaede-chan and Devas, as much as I agree that debate is a natural part of any forum, I just ask that you keep the insults to yourselves. You don't have to harass the person you're debating to get your point across.

My general opinion is this. The simplicity of this game is both a great attribute, as well as it's Achilles' heel. With the current lack of a registration system it attracts people who don't like jumping through hurdles to play a game. At the same time it attracts a different audience of greifers, trolls, and people who just enjoy causing mischief.

Nobody can really be sure whether a registration system would resolve this issue or not. Anybody can change their IP just as easily as they can register a new email address for registration. Sure it seems unlikely that somebody would go to these lengths, but it's the internet and we've seen exactly that on these very forums.

Obviously the game is still in it's infancy and there's a lot of things that needed added and fixed and that's on Ben's time. You also have to realize that the implementation of a master server for the registration would be yet another expense for Ben and could possibly add another "crutch" for the game. If the server is down what happens? Nobody plays?

On the subject of charging for the game, I think it's too early for that. Sure the game has a fan base, but I don't think it's large enough to sustain any the development on it's own. I myself would be willing to pay for it, but I think that's cause I have empathy towards other developers. :D It would cut back on the amount of greifers significantly, but like I said, I think it's too early for that.

This isn't meant to try to debunk your argument Kaede-chan. Like I said, it's just my personal opinion. I would like to see a lot of these issues resolved, as I'm sure everyone else would. You just want to be careful and try to future-proof it as much as possible before implementing a system-wide change like this.

If players don't feel like registering for a game, then it's their loss. It's like you registering for a forum, if you don't, you don't get to post on the forum. Simple.

I am looking forward to see you when Ben codes a registration system.

Stop this.

I agree to disagree, but I'd also like you to agree to stop insulting me.
And I like how you countered all of my arguments by implying that I'm not able to see it's "potential".
You obviously don't see how the CONS outweigh the PROS if there even are any PROS (less stability, money issues, developper's time being wasted, easily bypassable, not a guarantee of anything, etc...)

cool i think i ended it

Devas, let's just agree to disagree okay? It's obvious you don't see the potential for a registration system.

wow this is like watching a tv drama lol but keep on going it is really interesting

Very few would quit "until we get registration" anyways, and I hope (and am convinced) that we're not getting it anytime soon.
A registration system would require an accounts database, and potentially more powerful servers, and will probably going to cause more technical issues. Who's going to code and finance it? And is it really worth it?

This game is in beta, this is not minecraft, there are not enough features to charge for this game yet. Very few would play, barely enough to make up one server.

Griefing and spider towers have nothing in common. Spider towers are built the way they are to prevent normal pvp sabotage. As you know, and have mentioned many times, "griefing" the other teams structures isn't griefing, it's sabotage, which is perfectly acceptable. Switching teams from blue to green to grief their structures IS griefing (and abuse of mechanics in my opinion) and should be bannable for.

Charging users to access pay-to-play servers would definitely stop bad behaviour in said servers, since people wouldn't want to waste their money.
And griefers do force builders to make more "realistic" and "solid" and "complex" constructions that won't be taken down easily. As an occasionnal builder, I can tell you that it's quite fun to make constructions that are challenging to break.
And whithout griefers, we wouldn't have more complex architecture such as "spider towers".

No, greifers are what ruin my art.
Gtfo nubfais.
Your both asses.
I get to win.
Free is freedom.
Green sucks.

Nowhere in ANY of my posts did I say registration would stop griefing. I fully acknowledge the fact that assholes will be assholes.

Charging 10 dollars for this game is not the answer. There are access issues, and it's inconsiderate to those without access to paypal (yes, those people do exist)
We're very far from going to 7-11 and buying one of those cards to pay for access.
Nobody would play this game anymore if Mr. Aksoy charged for it.

Griefers do not make construction interesting. Getting a structure you spent 45 minutes building destroyed in 20 seconds is not anybody's idea of fun. If it is, yeah right.

Why should I? At least, it doesn't force people to register. And I'm pretty sure that it won't completely stop griefing on "registered users only" servers.
Now THIS is what would stop most of the griefing:
http://ace-spades.com/forums/topic.php?id=1415

Anyways, as some users in "AssessensChillSpot Build Only" said:
"griefers are what makes construction interesting"
Think about it.

And as I said before, I don't think this game needs anyone who can't be bothered taking 2-5 minutes out of their life to register for a free game. Those are the kind of people who are griefing, because they don't have to register to do it.

Here's an idea!!!!!! Let there be >>>optional<<< registration, but any server owner can designate a server as registered users only. Find me an argument for that, Devas.

"I fail to understand how forcing registration is making the game experience worse for honest players? Are you even trying in this argument? The only people this will inconvenience are those that grief (even if only a little bit, for the truely dedicated griefers) "
I did NOT say that forcing registration makes the gaming experience worse for honest players, just that it could make a few of them not want to try the game.

Oh god, I hurt his feelings over the internet. Somebody call the waaambulence.

Seriously dude, you're fighting a losing battle here. Nobody likes you.

Edit: Good, then you can leave my thread. Or I'll just have one of the moderators remove you because you create these ridiculous arguments between us.

You disagree with something you know is going to make me say something, and when I do, you cry and point at me and make me look like the bad person.

Edit again: It's not the disagreeing with me, its the reasons for why you disagree that you give. You're basically saying "griefers own this game, and no matter what you do to change it, they'll always win" and that is what pisses me off. The way you're saying it is like you're supporting their ideals instead of everybody else's and you're coming into MY thread with that bullshit.

And I'm not going to stop calling you a troll, griefer, and script kiddie (granted, I don't know for sure if you're a script kiddie, but I've got a hunch) because it's 100% true. On sham's servers you were given several warnings about griefing and being an ass in general and you kept doing shit you knew would piss people off, and when you got kicked, you complain that the admins on sham's server are "abusing their powers". Very childish.

I fail to understand how forcing registration is making the game experience worse for honest players? Are you even trying in this argument? The only people this will inconvenience are those that grief (even if only a little bit, for the truely dedicated griefers) Myself, I'll be fighting for first in line for registration. Sign me up, because I know I can build up a good reputation with my name.

Yes, you are really hurting my feelings, and I am going to ask you to stop for the last time, PLEASE.
What you are doing falls under "directed abuse".
I am going to stop "feeding your troll" and ignore you from now on.
EDIT to your edit again: you are saying nonsense. I just had a nice game in Lexsym's server (Harbor urban with Serverbot or whatever it's name is...) and besides from a "votekick for griefing" which was a sad misunderstanding at the beginning (and didn't get through) my team mates liked me and respected me and we had lots of fun&teamwork... You can read the logs if Serverbot has them you're an admin there.
(And I'd like to thank Jaguar, Ion and the others for the good game.)

DOUBLE EDIT: you are 100% totally free to disagree with me. What's the point of a forum then, if everyone agrees on everything? All I want you to do is stop the ad-hominems and name-calling (griefer, troll, script-kiddie) and "threats" to get the "moderators to remove me" as if I was a piece of crap and fallacious statements such as "nobody likes you" which have been going on for a long time, and are against the rules. It makes me sick, and you're making yourself look bad by yourself. Right now, it's you who are ruining the debate, by calling me a troll and insulting me instead of answering to my valid arguments...

TRIPLE EDIT: I am not supporting their ideals or anyone's, I'm just being down to earth and realistic. There's nothing that you can do to completely stop griefing whithout making the gaming experience worse.
And what I do in the game has nothing to do with what I do on the forum. How can you know that that Devas was me, and not someone impersonating me? Besides that, I didn't complain about the admins on Sham's abusing their powers, you can ask him. I completely deserved that kick, and what you considered as "pissing people off" was just me showing hompy how some of his actions didn't really make sense (they said that putting blocks all over some constructions was allowed, so I put blocks on others and "people got pissed off")

Stop trolling, Devas. Did I hurt your feelings, babby?

You're one of the last trolls left on this board, because you have a way with words and squirming out of trouble.

You one of those "dedicated griefers" you speak of? Notice how nobody likes you ingame because all you do is troll and grief?

It seems like you haven't read this post yet, Kaede-chan
http://ace-spades.com/forums/topic.php?id=1760#post-21067
Edit to your edit: good point. A dedicated griefer already "enjoys" the game, so he is motivated to make said accounts. And he's using fake email adresses which are easily accessible.
All that the newbie knows about the game, tho, is that it looks ugly but is easy to download, and therefore could be less motivated to put up with the registration.
Especially if he's using an "annoying-to-access" real email adress such as those ending in gmail.com

You would know, wouldn't you Devas? Had a lot of experience in this field, haven't you?

Anyway, most if the imbeciles that grief couldn't be bothered doing it anyway, it'd just be you script kiddies.

Also, your logic fails. First you say "oh registration would turn off a lot of people because of how hard it is"

Then you say "Registering 5-15 accounts would only take 5 minutes"

I am speaking from personal experience...
When I introduced a friend of mine to the game and taught him how to change his nick, he was very happy and said something along the lines of "great, finally a game where you can easily register"
Anyways, making 10 or 15 accounts in a row should be an easy process which takes less than 5 minutes... Which is sometimes the time needed to change your IP.

If you can't take a couple minutes to register for a game, you shouldn't be playing.
This is one of the very few games out there that does not at least require some sort of registration.

There is no positive side to that. If you can't be bothered to register, fuck off.