I agree with lowering the fire rate. This thing eats through all 150 rounds in a matter of seconds.

Lowering the fire rate would also make it easier to control.

GIVE US BACK OUR DOUBLE AMMO AT THE CP!!! WHY WAS IT REMOVED?????

The only change I would do atm is decreasing the firerate. Thats the main problem with the SMG I think. Because it's quite hard to shoot in bursts. You shoot so many rounds with this high firerate and that increases the recoil. So lower firerate would help a lot.

Additionally I would maybe decrease the recoil while standing because that's where the SMG is quite useless. You always need to crouch to really have an impact.

The damage is ok I think. People maybe complain about low damage because they think they hit the enemy but actually didn't because of that server-side hit detection which was introduced with this update.

the smg is just pure fire rate, you can't aim as short (2-3) bursts dont kill and long one just tear up the land.
it works best as a block buster weapon.

"But then again, maybe all of this is being compounded by the "server-side hit verification". There definitely needs to be some work done on that, many hits (from the rifle and SMG alike) aren't registering, even on stationary targets. "

Then don't use it.

1337 already said what was needed to be said.

It doesn't have the accuracy or the control of a MP5. That's where the problems arise; it's not balanced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjY0Us7NOns

Quit complaining about damage, it's an mp5!

That's what makes no sense. The way this gun handles and what it is most used for is the complete opposite of a normal SMG. It's like a mega hybrid.

It has the recoil of a light/medium machine gun, the stopping power of a handgun, the ammo count of a sub machine gun, and the accuracy of...well...a BB gun. The bullets don't even travel straight out of the barrel, even when only one shot was fired.

But then again, maybe all of this is being compounded by the "server-side hit verification". There definitely needs to be some work done on that, many hits (from the rifle and SMG alike) aren't registering, even on stationary targets.

I've found that crouching, using ironsights, and firing in short bursts severly cut down on the innacuracy.

Clicking once quickly will fire two shots (with my mouse, anyway), and I've found that at least one of them will hit the mark all the way to the fog if you're crouching and using the sights.

The SMGs are also really effective against fortifications. A full mag can blow a sizable hole in a one-block-thick wall, or reduce a two-block-thick wall to a patchy one-block-thick one.

I managed to kill Tank 2 times in a row from fog distance with the SMG while he was using the standard rifle.

Doesn't change the fact that I still think it's garbage.

Solution for blocks: Give blocks the same health system as players and give each 75HP. Thus, rifles would destroy blocks in 3 shots, while SMG's wouldn't.

Not sure how healthy it would be for performance, but block damage is client side anyway, so...

You guys don't use weapons with ridiculous spread/recoil in short controlled burst?.

the SMG looks fine to me, in the video. I haven't tried playing .53, yet, but I really do not think it is so bad. like this lazyswedishdeveloper guy says, just control the recoil, 3 headshots is not bad for something so fast firing.

I have not tried it yet, so I do not really know, but it doesn't seem that bad. just don't empty a clip at some guy who you can barely see through the fog

@Drury: Yay! I feel mildly famous now.

Yeah, based on that footage the SMG sucks in open spaces, against entrenched enemies, and the like.

I still see it as having potential when used in a group. Take a small group of marksman and give them a gunner or two and send them on a raid... the marksmen do most of the dirty work, with the gunners dealing with pockets of heavy resistance and working to keep enemy heads down.

Overall, though, I'm glad that Ben implemented the SMG underpowered. It's called "erring on the side of caution," and ultimately this is better for the game. We've already been able to spot some problems and make suggestions (make it take longer for an SMG to break blocks, for example), rather than all quitting because COD kiddies are running all over spraying lead in our faces.

As a CounterStrike vet I have only this to say about the SMG:

lrn2ctrl recoil

HATERS STOP HATING

Not to sound like an asshole, but if you've seen some of my older posts (from around April-May), you'd see that this is exactly what I was hoping would NOT happen. Everyone wanted a machine gun (myself included), yet they also wanted to destroy its usefulness by making it super inaccurate with an atrocious amount of recoil (myself excluded), all in the name of "fairness" and "balance". Well, both of those were taken way too far with this, and now the SMG, however cool it may be, is more apt to get you killed than do anything else.

Well, I remember everyone talking how shit would machine guns be, myself included. Now I see we were right. Not only they are cliché COD crap, they're useless and overpowered griefer's best friend. Nice, manly shotgun, that's what we need. Mounted machine guns too, so you won't cry. ACTUALLY, MOUNTED MACHINE GUNS WOULD RULE

Head 49
Torso 17
Limbs 14

Takes 3 shots to head to kill

The recoil is way too much. The rifle is better in close quarters. If this gets changed, the sub machine gun will have use. But if its staying the way it is there is no point of adding it then telling griefers "HARE WU GUT NAEW GURN FO U!

Yeah, after testing the SMG myself, my original suspicions were confirmed; it's too damn inaccurate. It has far too much recoil, and even when you fire off one round at a time, the bullets don't go straight (like it's naturally built to be inaccurate, couple that with its extremely unrealistic/overwhelming amount of recoil and you've got a serious problem). It is damn-near useless at close range as the recoil is far too overpowered for such a small weapon.

And I must say, while Ben had stated that hit detection was still client side, it sure as hell doesn't feel like it. Even with the rifle, it's ridiculously hard to shoot someone. I was just playing a few minutes ago and ran into someone who was lagging like crazy. Just as I expected, he was impossible to hit, yet he managed to kill all three of my team mates.

All of this testing was done with less than six people on the server (there were around 3-5 people).

Not to sound like an asshole, but if you've seen some of my older posts (from around April-May), you'd see that this is exactly what I was hoping would NOT happen. Everyone wanted a machine gun (myself included), yet they also wanted to destroy its usefulness by making it super inaccurate with an atrocious amount of recoil (myself excluded), all in the name of "fairness" and "balance". Well, both of those were taken way too far with this, and now the SMG, however cool it may be, is more apt to get you killed than do anything else.

Well, except for griefing.

When it's not overpowered and it's basically useless...

DON'T IMPLEMENT IT

Same thing was Minecraft and guns. Fortunately, it's still gun-free game (unless you install one of 1337 gun mods).

@mcsixto95: 9 shots/block would make it equal to the rifle. I'm only proposing to edit how much block damage it does, not player damage.

Were the tracers actually curving in their path, or did they just start off at an angle?

If I was coding this game, I'd just start some off randomly at an angle and use simple straight lines to work out what I hit (think of an imaginary cone at the barrel, with bullets going off in all directions of the cone).

Having to calculate curves and what is on the path of a curve etc seems like a lot of extra work for not much extra benefit IMO

The SMG doesn't shoot in a straight line I even set up a target in game and started single shooting it. The bullets were mostly curving and sometimes missing the target.

Hm. I'd agree.

Also, the recoil should be less 'up'. It is almost impossible to shoot someone in a trench:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UrHa5w4K5c

Stack received no damage during that entire time.
He did the same to me, and I could see the bullets flying through my view (headshot) but it still didn't damage me..

The hit detection for all weapons is.. not great.. I think making SMG have less recoil as outlined above ^ and making the hit detection run as perfect as it used to (even if it means revertion to client-based hit-detection - which is not a great problem anyway?).

Ima stay with .53 installed so i dont loose all my shit when i uninstall

to go back to .52 go to startmenu>all programs> ace of spades> uninstall

then reinstall 5.2 from the server menu

but right now i cant go on other servers.....

-_-

HAHA!
Is it down cause i couldnt join?

^same it kicked me, too lazy to rejoin :P

once you have the leaked version installed type aos://3026288558/ into your searchbar in internet explorer to get onto the server