Every time you get something built, a griefer can and will destroy it in less than 5 seconds. Afterwards, it's a battle to convince the rest of the server full of dickheads that this guy is a griefer when he's saying he didn't do it. Regardless, if they get kicked or not, another one will come along and destroy everything you create. There needs to be something to prevent this in an update soon. It's unbearable.

People are people. You can't change that.

he realizes that. that's why he wants to prevent such behavior by means of "something." unfortunately he didn't suggest ideas as to what that something could be, so this thread is nothing more than obvious.

but it's good he spoke up because without our voice Ben won't know what his priorities should be.

i feel OP's pain. griefers are ruining the game because there is absolutely nothing we can do about them. the solution to griefers should be player controlled because that's way more exciting than something the game does automatically for you.

i like the idea of being able to attack griefers, but there would need to be a way to prevent them from abusing such a system.

Nope just need a better kick system which mods already add and admins

It would help if vote kicking displayed a message with y/n option for everyone instead of everyone having to type out /votekick. Also displaying statistics of their behavior would be helpful as evidence, like the number of blocks they've destroyed recently. Ideally the owner of blocks could be tracked so that a message like this could be displayed:

"Player Deuce1 has destroyed 30 non-terrain blocks they didn't lay in the last minute. Votekick y/n?"

This would help for the majority of griefing which is usually rapid destruction of someone else's construction. Slower destruction would still be possible but requires more patience and deliberation.

Plenty of legit reasons to do that

You guys know you can be plenty autistic out of the game with the map edition and slab6, by using slab six to make the castles and shit and then pressing u in the map editor and uploading them onto the terrain.

I think giving admins the power to IP ban would help immensely.

Private whitelisted servers would also be a great pleasure, but that would require account registration; which would also help.

"Building structures is impossible in more populated servers"

Go in a smaller server then.

Simples.

In the next version, I'm going to start testing some anti-griefing measures... first I'll make anybody that digs on your side of the map susceptible to friendly fire for a really short period of time... 1 or 2 seconds.

Even though griefers can start teamkilling tactics I somehow I think that would be less frustrating than having your work destroyed by teammates.

Hoo boy can't wait to get shot by my own team for digging a trench

How do we know were the boundry is? Will d be the border or something?

1 second is plenty.

to prevent tactical griefing, perhaps newly placed blocks (<10s?) can be destroyed without flagging teammates as attackable in case a griefer attempts to trap/flag teammates and/or flood a design with random blocks.

otherwise i can already imagine myself firing at enemies through a window in my bunker when suddenly my teammate closes the window, then closes the door, then waits for me to free myself so he can shoot me in the head.

Noire, the boundary would be the center vertical line on the map grid.

Note to self- work out where the fort windows are AS I build the wall. Don't punch them out afterwards or some gun-happy nut will cap me from behind... I just know it...

Hm...the idea is interesting. Since you really don't need to dig that often on your own side of the map and if you accidently get killed by some teammate walking to your last place shouldn't take too long.
But I don't think that letting us kill griefers is a good way to handle this problem... If the building is right in our spawning area the griefer still could grief it, get killed, walk ten steps to the building, grief some more, get killed again after some time, he would only get frustrated and maybe watch the other players and wait until they dig something to revenge-kill them...
But hey! It's worth trying. We'll see then how the griefers will react.

One thing would also help us a lot: Pls make a proper vote-kick interface. So that every player sees a message after one player started a votekick and could choose between Yes and No. (bind them to the F-keys for example, like Yes --> F12 and No --> F11) It really sux to have to shout out "all write /votekick x" all the time to get the attention of everyone. (Since it only displays five messages at the same time and there's no chatlog.)
This shouldn't really take more than half an hour to code. :)

even a votekick system that initiates automatically might be a solution.

if for example, someone destroys X blocks in X seconds on his side, a message pops up saying so and asks his teammates if they want to kick said player.

this would probably make the map feel too restricted though, and it's that kind of feeling that ruins games for me, so personally i favor the attackable route Ben is already taking.

but this easy/auto votekick thing could be useful for extreme cases.

ben, i really dont think allowing teamkilling is the right solution here. theres just way too much potential for abuse. like WAY too much. And i really dont see the connection between digging on your side and griefing... there are plenty of reasons to dig in your own territory like gathering blocks for building.

The simple solution is account registration with permanent bans. You are going to need to add it at some point anyways so why not sooner rather than later? you could also use accounts to track stats and produce leader-boards and whatnot, which people always love.

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I agree with the anti-TK side.

The focus should be on making griefer tactics invisible and ineffective to a normal player. The entire point of the "grief" mentality is to be provocative and get cheap attention, so flashy methods of punishment backfire and put even more attention on the griefer.

Allowing teamkilling does the opposite - it introduces another source of own-team rage. If you TK a griefer they'll claim that you're the one griefing and start a stupid, repetitive argument. Teamchat will become filled with rage.

I would recommend making the punishment both milder and more infuriating than TK, instead: if a player gets hit by friendly fire after clearing a block, temporarily strip the player of the weapon that caused the damage(or more specifically, let it do enemy damage but not block damage). So a griefer can do a minimum of four "hits" of block damage - one from the spade, one from the pickaxe, one from the gun, one from the grenade - before they're stripped of everything destructive.

For a normal player, this isn't a huge problem. In the worst-case scenario a griefer follows you out to the front lines and tries to impede tunnel construction. But if they do that, they're in danger of getting hit by enemies(not fun); as well, impeding construction of a tunnel does not have the visual impact of toppling a bridge or building(also not fun). The normal player, on the other hand, can always run off and take another route to get to the enemy; they haven't lost anything and can go back to finish the tunnel later.

This reduces our griefing surface area to:

1. Walling people in, which is already difficult and expensive enough that people don't really try it.

2. Destroying things when nobody is around to see it. Which I don't think is that bad; it's disappointing to _come back_ to a destroyed structure, especially if it was useful, but the griefer doesn't get the gratification of forcing others to watch the destruction. And if it were that important, people would be using it and watching.

ben, i really dont think allowing teamkilling is the right solution here. theres just way too much potential for abuse. like WAY too much. And i really dont see the connection between digging on your side and griefing... there are plenty of reasons to dig in your own territory like gathering blocks for building.

i suppose one connection could be that you're human and witnessing someone you thought you knew dig away your precious minerals for unknown reasons makes you feel betrayed!

but anyway, respawning a few seconds after getting killed and returning to your structure to protect it isn't as bad as helplessly watching potentially hours of work get griefed to nothing.

you're just going to have to be more careful when digging, that's all. check your surroundings and pay attention to the locations of the white circles on the map before you dig. most teammates won't attack you, and those who will generally won't have enough patience to hang around if you just wait for them to go away.

I think a really simple solution is to simply make blocks that YOU lay down impossible to break by any of your team-mates, except by hand grenades (nobody can grief a whole structure with 2 grenades). This presents a new problem with dickheads plugging your bunker windows and you being unable to break their blocks. But this problem is a drop in a bucket compared to the problem of your entire structures being demolished constantly or getting shot in the head by teammates while you're building.

No.

Whatever dude. That's just, like, your opinion man.

In the next version, I'm going to start testing some anti-griefing measures... first I'll make anybody that digs on your side of the map susceptible to friendly fire for a really short period of time... 1 or 2 seconds.

Even though griefers can start teamkilling tactics I somehow I think that would be less frustrating than having your work destroyed by teammates.

Awesome.

There will be TK-grief from this but I agree with bcoolface that I think this will less grief than the scenarios where you watch a griefer systematically work their way along a bridge or a tower or whatever and slowly but surely destroy something safe in the knowledge that there is basically nothing that can be done to stop them. This will stop that blatant, easy abuse.

There could be scenarios though where someone will just sit at the back sniping their own team as they work on the defenses and yes that will be annoying, but as bcoolface said this is "testing".

Hopefully the server will announce quite clearly that someone TK'd someone (I notice that I only seem to see when I've killed someone, not when someone else killed someone) so that the entire server can see quite clearly if you end up with someone just sitting there picking off their own team over and over and so a vote kick would be more effective as the griefing then becomes visible to the entire server, rather than at the moment where its often not seen.

all of these ideas and solutions might work, im just saying is that adding permanent accounts and bans is guaranteed to work. Theres no risk at all in implementing it because there is a zero percent chance that it will backfire.

its super simple, and exists already is so many other online games... so why try to come up with a new idea when there is already a flawless one already exists?

Implementing accounts and stuff is not just a 10 minute job you know. What bcoolface has suggested is relatively simple to implement from what I understand of the engine. An account thing is not straight forward - integration with the game, setting up the web interfaces, the back end databases, the backend emailer, handling forgotten passwords, email duplicates, how to stop automated registrations, security testing etc etc etc etc etc etc just in 5 seconds off of the top of my head for reasons why it is not simple. It aint as easy as waving a magic wand. Valve et al do it because they make bucket loads of money out of it and can pay for a full time team of developers to make it, maintain it and support all the whinging and whining from people when they've been banned or forgotten their passwords or someone has "stolen" their account etc.

What is to stop people just creating more accounts anyway? The only real way to do that is to start charging people cash. Right now that might not be the best thing for AoS to have happen to it, and even if you do that you then have even more development stuff to do with payment integration.

I'd rather get something like the TK test in now to stop the game dying from griefers as right now its hard to get a good game on some servers because of the grief. Accounts can come later on.

"There could be scenarios though where someone will just sit at the back sniping their own team as they work on the defenses and yes that will be annoying, but as bcoolface said this is "testing"."

Hooray, now griefers can not only destroy buildings but also TK others. What an improvement.
I believe just implementing proper votekicking will work.

Ben, it's cool and all, but can you focus on a proper votekick system that announces the current vote(s)?

Nobody reads the text on the "Play AoS" page.

Yeah, griefers are idiots. We should solve this problem by fighting idiocy.

And that means votekick GUI.