See what you think of this one:

I'm mostly a saboteur kind of player, and I like nothing more than sneaking behind enemy lines and destroying enemy structures while harassing the enemy. Currently, there are four kinds of targets to go for.

*The Base- mining it into a deep pit to anger those enemy soldiers
*Bridges- a risky yet rewarding above-ground target
*False Intel Markers- so that my team won't waste time going for them
*And the Intel, when I get bored of making the enemy watch their back in their own base, if nobody else from my team is prepared to get it.

I think there should be other targets for both sides, and combined with the complaints from others that there needs to be more things that go boom, I had an idea:

What if each side, sticking with the WW1 theme, had artillery guns- ones that just like the base and intel could not be moved? Each side gains a defensive weapon to target nearby enemy sniper nests, but can't use it to directly destroy enemy base structures (because of their limited range).

On the flipside, each side now has a new target: the guns themselves. I'm not sure yet how to deal with them- dig them into a pit like the base? Destroy them with grenades and they respawn eventually elsewhere like the intel? Or do they NEVER respawn? I'm not sure how they'd be used yet either- whether someone gets in them like a vehicle or just 'gets' the cannon weapon when standing in the right spot.

But I think it's important that they can't move. Not only to provide a tempting target for saboteurs like myself, but so that they can't be brought forward and used to flatten the enemy spawn base. I'd say about 2 guns per side sounds about right, don't you?

Also I think that the reload times should be very long and that you would have to mark targets with a special block - having to get in close range, or maybe a smoke grenade.

my theories of wat i should be
1. cant move from its block except up or down
2. can shoot halfway across the map
3.always somwhere right near the back of the map
4.slow reload rate
5.when used gives sumthin like the ironsights?
6.destroyable/slow respawn rate

Definitely needs a slow reload rate, though maybe it should have a 'magazine' of maybe 5 rounds, so it can try multiple fires-for-effect before needing to do its big reload. Though 1 shot reload doesn't have too many problems either.

I disagree with painting a target first. If someone has to get close first, you may as well try your luck with grenades. Artillery gives you a long range anti-base camper option.

(as a result, rifle fire should not affect the Artillery Mounts, I suppose)

Maybe if grid coordinates were introduced to the map then you could talk the artillery onto the target. I think it'd be pretty cool to have like ONE big immovable seige mortar. Something along the lines of this baby. http://www.lermuseum.org/ler/mh/wwi/thumbnails/kruppguntn.jpg

I like the idea of adding artillery cannons. One way they could work is that when you go to your camp you can press a key (say ] and [) while you have selected your gun and it will exchange it for an artillery cannon you can place. Then all of the rules you state will apply. In order to prevent spamming, there should be a cool down on how often the base will offer supplies. If you place your cannon too close to the enemies borders they can take it and use it against you. The artillery cannon should destroy the ground with the same radius as a grenade for a reasonable area. Finally there should be a way to destroy the cannons(if you need to move it or prevent the enemy from using it you can't use a destroyed cannon) which should be dismantled with the pickaxe(5 hits maybe?).

I like your idea of artillery. One good way to use them is in defending both the HQ and the Intel.
Some ways to add balance:
*The artillery will have an ammo limit, when it runs out you need to wait some time until it respawns in the HQ. Maybe something between 5~15 min.
*It will be static. It cannot be moved.
*It can be destroyed. You can destroy the enemy artillery and the enemy can destroy your's with grenades, gun shoots and with pickaxe.

I think that there should be about 3 artillery emplacements a side, each one can fire about once every 10 seconds and contains about 12 rounds (this means a minute long barrage, if all are firing at intervals, this means 1 round falling every 3.3 seconds for a minute) to generate ammo wait for 15 minutes and it will be refilled, (alternatively, players might be able to bring individual rounds to artillery)

They can be destroyed with grenades or being dug underneath, alternatively you could kill the player using it. They respawn like the intel, but still close to the HQ tent. Respawns take about 20 minutes, and when it spawns it spawns without ammo for 5 minutes

as for aiming the artillery I believe you should be given a picture of the map, and you click a location, the artillery will fire at that location (so you will need spotters or know the general idea of where the enemy is) capturing the intel then makes your artillery extremely effective and super accurate as you know exactly where to fire. The only restriction would be it could not fire directly on the spawn (the entire area enemys can spawn in your artillery cannot fire). The use of the map rather than ironsights makes more sense to me.

The artillery rounds should have a distinct noise as they fall, and their explosion should be bigger than a grenade.

Thats how I think they should work, however it makes tunnelling seem EXTREMELY attractive. Perhaps to balance this a tunnel defence will be made.

I'd suggest adding a grid system to the map before or while adding arty. Otherwise, good luck getting aiming down. Maybe telling the atry to attack a gridsquare means 5-10 rounds hitting the square? Depends on how big a "gridsquare" is though.

Yeah, tunnels would become even more lucrative. Might need fixing.

Also, add an ending to the rounds first, otherwise there will be many servers with the artillery destroyed as they wear on for however long they do now.

a grid would be an excellent addition, rather than "fire on that hill sort of of there a bit"

if the grid size is good the artillery round landing randomly in the grid would make it more realistic (artillery could never perfectly be aimed)

a point I would like to raise:

Should this artillery hurt allies as well as enemies? Discuss.

I like the idea of artillery in the game, and think this could work to fit the theme and setting well if implemented right.

I agree with alexthecreeper's above post listing the 6 points, but would prefer AbominableToast's solution instead of using iron sights, so that you choose a grid sector and it lands randomly in that sector (I took the liberty to add that as no. 5 in my revised edition of alexthecreepers list below). I would also like to stress that only 1 artillery piece is really enough (no. 0). that friendly-fire with this could be amazing (before firing, call out "Fire in the hole in G4") if you can find a solution to griefing (no. 7). Finally, to counter all the limitations above and still make it effective (and more impressive), it needs explosions to be massive (no. 8).

Thus, I present my revision of alexthecreepers list:

0. Only one artillery piece
1. Can't move from its block except up or down
2. Can shoot halfway across the map
3. Always somwhere right near the back of the map
4. Slow reload rate
5. In-accurate, you operate it by choosing a map grid sector, and you get random hit in that sector
6. Destroyable/slow respawn rate
7. Friendly fire, if a solution to griefing is found
8. Big Badaboom

(Disclaimer: Not actually endorsed by alexthecreeper)

Buffet of Lies, that's kind of how I imagined it too, but I'd give each team two guns. That way even if one gun is taken out, the other can still be used to fire on snipers overlooking the spawnpoints. I love Toast's reasoning on it- I think we have more or less the same ideas about how it should work- however I don't see what good spawning it without ammo would be. Better to have to wait a bit longer for it to spawn -with- ammo, I think.

I think using the grid to aim is probably the best way. And innacurate fire within a grid square is a fantastic idea. Even once spotted, a truly gutsy sniper may choose to stay put during a barrage and at least have a chance of surviving. Like AA fire back in the real wars- soldiers often had to learn to just ignore it, and leave it to chance.

So yes- grid aimed, not-perfectly-accurate barrages sound excellent.

To prevent it from being too abused, I think your team should only get to fire it every time you cap the intel (of course though, if you choose you can build up a supply of uses) . It will give the teams an incentive to push the offensive.

heres a new revised list of ideas taking into account everything on this thread so far
0. Only one artillery piece
1. cant move from its block except up or down
2. Can shoot halfway across the map
3. Always somwhere right near the back of the map,near a mountain top
4. 10 seconds to reload before it can fire
5. In-accurate, you operate it by choosing a map grid sector, and you get random hit in that sector
6. Destroyable/slow respawn rate
7. 1 shot at beginning of game and then 1 more every intel cap
8.needs 3 people to operate so as to make sure a nice chunk of the team approves of its use
9. 2 of said 3 people need to agree on a grid square for fire
10. 5 block destruction radius 10 block damage radius

Dunno where you pulled 7-10 from, they all look like hasty ideas that would only work on paper. You also forgot to take into account that some of us think there should be more than one artillery piece per side, for reasons already stated.

Steak, if the artillery can only reach halfway across the map, then it can't really be abused like that. There's no need to further limit the rate of fire to fix a problem that range limits have already got covered anyway. The only remaining way they could be abused is to demolish friendly defences, and assuming the guns always spawn close to the base/intel, a simple 'no fire' radius around the gun (and maybe another indicator for the far side of the map) would solve that problem pretty easily.

I have been thinking on this post for quite some time,

Yes I can imagen mounts on ace-spades,

But i can also see problems,

As you know, When you jump in water you press "space ctrl and up button"
Imagen with that on mounts,

The mounts would run faster and confuse the movement on the path,

Also in other problem i can see is making the mount,
As you also know, its made by blocks,

Might ruin the game blocks and may cause extra lagg,

Alex

7. 1 shot at beginning of game and then 1 more every intel cap
this one i said cause its true that a ranged weapon that can destroy blocks and kill ppl easily shouldnt have easy to get ammo, not to mention the incentive of getting intel cause atm nobody cares about it
8.needs 3 people to operate so as to make sure a nice chunk of the team approves of its use
this is here to make sure that ammo isnt wasted if 7 gets put into play
9. 2 of said 3 people need to agree on a grid square for fire
this ones here for almost the same reason as 8
10. 5 block destruction radius 10 block damage radius
this one i did just pull out of air and now i think on it i dont realy like it
and i said only one cause i mean seriusly its a ranged weapon of mass destruction u realy dont need more than 1 at most you could maybe have 2

1 shot at the start and intel cap could mean as few as 1 shot every 5 minutes, which is unacceptable for warding off a concentrated assault on your base. If it took the option of sveral shots falling in a grid location in an unpredictable pattern, you get the same benefits as the other option, but with more interesting results. Not to mention that requiring teamwork to use would be doomed to fail as people by nature don't work together. Hell back in bf1942 the artillery needed one to shoot and had a spot to drive, and even that basic level of needed co-ordination rendered the artillery useless in most cases, unless someone ran off with one to use by themselves. Same goes for agreeing on a target- you would have people deliberately marking useless co-ordinates just to waste ammo and mess with their team. At least with a single gunner everyone will know who to votekick if they mess around.

The destruction radius I actually kinda like. Someone did mention that servers would need a cap limit first to prevent total destruction. An alternative to this, now I think about it, would be for arty hits to make 'craters' where a grenade blast's worth is taken away, but a ring of dirt blocks is created around the edge. Makes for good infantry cover, plus keeps the number of blocks in the map closer to some sort of equilibrium.

"The destruction radius I actually kinda like. Someone did mention that servers would need a cap limit first to prevent total destruction. An alternative to this, now I think about it, would be for arty hits to make 'craters' where a grenade blast's worth is taken away, but a ring of dirt blocks is created around the edge. Makes for good infantry cover, plus keeps the number of blocks in the map closer to some sort of equilibrium."

I like that idea, because you read war stories where soldiers would jump into the craters because they were an instant foxhole.

As for the intel capture, doesn't entirely make sense, as during WWI everything revolved around your artillery, bombard their trenches until your men can move up, the artillery should be raining down all the time, taking out the enemies guns gives your team a huge advantage, you can now push towards the front more confidently.

Ok, next point I would like us to discuss is this;

Artillery will cause people to stay away from the surface, how would the game maker balance "tunnelling" so that blue does not lose every game. (you can't tunnel to green, the rivers stop you) The green team usually always tunnels to blue, with artillery the surface will becomes very dangerous, how can we discourage tunnelling so that artillery actually gets used?

How about reloading it with blocks? When a certain size cube of blocks is put on a preset space, the artillery reloads. Then you just have it be fired manually.

reiiama that sounds pretty good, perhaps that block consumes about 5 blocks or so, and you can either dig for more, or go to the tent (perhaps it would be better if it was a tent only block)

I like the idea of the artillery pushing blocks, perhaps it could cause a collapse in the caves. Though that would be a weak deterrent. Maybe land mines could be used, find an enemy tunnel place a land mine in the pathway then kill the enemy that goes there next time. The land mine might be one of the selection of weapons to choose from.

Akimbo those both sound good, a cave in could occur if it lands above the tunnel, causing more dirt blocks to spawn inside (rather than pushing them) should anyone be in that exact location they would be killed (this would have a depth though, only about 10 - 15 blocks down)

Land mines seem like an interesting concept, perhaps you should start a thread on landmines? if you don't want to I will do it for you because I like that idea now.

It's a good point- it would make tunneling more attractive and might unbalance it. While collapsing tunnels might be pretty hard to code and might induce lag, landmines sound like a much more feasible idea.

Just imagine if you could put a mine on a block and it showed a dot on the top of it, or became discoloured. Up on the surface they might be easy to spot and avoid (unless the placement was REALLY crafty- possibilities abound!), but down below in the darker tunnels, it would be far more likely for someone to miss one and trip it.

Not only that, but it's a good way to safeguard your own tunnels, or set 'trap' tunnels that lure invaders into thinking they've found a backdoor into your base, only to be blown apart- possibly a whole group at a time.

One thing though- we'd need to be able to remove them if we spot them. Maybe using the spade or pick on a mined block removes the mine safely and returns the block to normal. This way there's a reward for spotting them, and you never find yourself stuck facing a mine you can't avoid.

So yeah, Landmines and Artillery- they'd complement each other quite well, I think.

Bumping to get people's opinion on the *Landmines*

Do you think they would balance out the tunnels if Artillery was in there? Discuss.

If it was possible to collapse tunnels somehow,or maybe add stones that are hard to dig or even a landmine it would offset it
Actually both can use the artillery since blue can use the extra firepower bombing green,and green is going to use tunnels anyway

maybe artillery could shoot two types of rounds. Explosive and gas. Gas was huge in the first world war. It would be perfect for snipers, and the explosives would be used on the nests. Thoughts?

wait a minute. your guys havent been thinking. what if a griefer uses the cannon and fires at friendly buildings? that would SUUUUUUUCK. maybe you would need 2 people operating the cannon on selecting where to fire, on firing and as most griefers have no friends they wont be able to use the cannons. perhaps problem solved.

efud, we HAVE been thinking about those points... and discussing them too. If you'd care to look 11 posts above yours for multiple people manning the Arty, and 2 posts above that for where we addressed friendly building griefing.

Besides, there's nothing stopping a griefer teaming up with another (or bringing them along) to wreck that system anyway. Multiple people using it at once would cause more problems than it would fix. Much better to have an aiming zone where it simply won't fire under any circumstances. This also gives an intel stealer the benefit of knowing that while in the enemy base, they are safe from arty... if not the very real danger of enemy soldiers nearby...

Bump

Landmines, sounds pretty cool. make their colour a dark colour so it blends in with the dark browns in deep tunnels (closer to the surface the dirt is brighter, deep down its blacker) I believe first, grenades need a slight buff to throw distance, then people should have the option between 2 nades or 2 landmines at respawn left click places, right click is the arm/disarm.

Land mines should also be able to be exploded with grenades or artillery rounds