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This post is going to be TL;DR so for those of you who won't bother, and therefore are probably the cause of this post, you can just scroll down and start your troll logic. In fact this post is aimed more toward the developers; I hope that you guys actually get to read this and don't find too much offence with it. Let me explain. I do not mean that this game is not fun or bad in any way. Quite the opposite. It is very, very fun and innovative. This game will not fail on it's own merits or from technical game play reasons. It will fail because of the players. By now most of you actually reading will have guessed what this post is going to be about - Griefing. Right now eyes are rolling, trolls are gleefully clicking U MAD!?? :D away on their chip filled, greased smeared keyboard and the rest are undoubtedly going, "I know but this has been covered in other posts." I know griefing has been posted about before, along with numerous helpful suggestions to get rid of it. I'm not writing to suggest ways to fix it because I am not going to play this game anymore. And it's not just me. Like most of these small games our group heard about this one not too long ago through word of mouth from a few folks we play Minecraft with. Minecraft plus guns! They proclaimed. We were sold. Our first few Ace of Spades games were awesome. Ridiculously fun. If there was a purchase option we, a group of six, probably would have done so off the hop. I feel very fortunate that there isn't one, since I would feel very ripped off right now. Even if there was a donate button (If there is we sure couldn't find it) the developers would have gotten 60 dollars right there. Then after a few games we noticed a trend. The griefing. Ridiculous amounts of griefing. Those first few games were flukes; large, full servers full of people who wanted to play the game properly. Oh, bunkers got chopped up - bridges collapsed. But it was always a different coloured avatar sapping these positions. The way the game was meant to be. We kept a record at the point we realized that this game was a trolling paradise. From a total of Sixteen Half Hour to Hour long games, we only had three matches were there was no prolonged, sustained griefing. And out of the three playable ones there was still griefing, just small individual actions that bored the perpetrator enough to only last a few minutes. Beyond those three, whether it be two or three individuals or large groups, every single game besides the first few we played seemed to have half our own team, and remember there were often 4-6 of us who know each other IRL joining together, doing everything in its power to sabotage and ruin the efforts of those attempting to play the game. We weren't playing to build pretty pictures or elaborate structures. Most of our construction consisted of small trenches, foxholes, the occasional bunker. On fewer occasions we assisted engineer type players erect bridges or tunnels to the enemies rear. Nothing we constructed on our own ever took more then a minute or two to build. And nothing lasted more then ten minutes unless it was built on the extreme fringes of the map. And only on five, FIVE out of numerous occasions, could we clearly attribute the destruction to the opposing team. In defence our positions would be chopped up by our team mates, often LOLLING and asking U MAD? On attack we would literally be stalked until we left once it became obvious we were trying to work as a group and play the game legitimately. If we stopped for a moment we'd instantly be getting buried in so our screens warped - and when we shoveled ourselves out to get free we'd be instantly team killed. Even with six of us voting the Vote Kick system never worked. None of these griefers were ever kicked. Not once. If we were fortunate enough to have an admin in a server they had to waste their time following these people, who would immediately become boy scouts. Only a few outright banned people, and even then other griefers would just hurl accusations at our group until one of our number was kicked out, even if at the time we were in the heart of the enemies base getting their intel. Our teams tent, if it wasn't on the base level, was quickly buried and entombed in the Earth. In the end if we wanted to avoid frustration we could only play this as a pure FPS; which is pointless. There are other games that do pure FPS and better. To attempt to utilize the core of this game, using the terrain and building ability to your advantage, immediately brought down the Griefing locusts. As soon as it became obvious we were a group, there to play the CTF aspect and not just to run around alone placing random technicolour blocks, we would become targets and be constantly harassed. This game is ruined by the players. Not those who attempt to play it normally, no, but by the majority that are there just to troll and disrupt every single server as much as possible. It is a waste of time to attempt to play it when there are other games, not necessarily better, that have a much better online community. I do not know why this game is so flooded with griefers, trolls and jerks but they are a majority. There is no point posted specific examples of servers or individuals perpetrating these acts because it is so prolific that you only need to join any random sever with a single player to see it in action. Even here in the forums you can see them, proud of themselves and spouting tired troll logic at any reasonable post. Once again this situation is well known within the Ace of Spades community and has been addressed before, but this post is addressed to the developers. Your game will not succeed with this player base. Not unless you implement a pay to play system to drive off the free floating trolls, which is probably impossible right now since this game is relatively obscure. You have lost six players - yeah big whoop in the larger picture right? We aren't the only ones. I am just leaving this post to let you know that many new players are turned off almost immediately. Those that stay are either converted to Griefing or, god bless them, so enthralled with the game that they're desperately and at the moment vainly trying to enjoy it. Our beginners luck for fun games was a massive fluke. We were beginning to spread good word of mouth, the thing that powers small projects like these, but we quickly rescinded our praise. I have seen other posts in other games - Minecraft, etc - telling people to stay away from this one. Not because the game is bad, but because it's impossible to enjoy due to the online community. Developers, I don't know how you can overcome these problems. I hope you find a way and do, and that you prove me wrong in the long run and that Ace of Spades becomes successful and popular. We have no suggestions because we have wasted enough time with all of this. We are not the only ones. We desperately wanted to play. We really wanted to pay - it was that good at the beginning. However this community has driven us and our money and our positive word of mouth away. We weren't the first and we most definitely will not be the last. |
#52305 One Shot Member Posted 13 years ago |
how long did that take you to type? |
#52307 drewdog50 Goatkeeper Posted 13 years ago |
TL;DR |
#52308 DeathEnhanced The Grand Exterminator Posted 13 years ago |
Oh and Ben's online, no need to hurt beny boo's feeling like that ='[. |
#52309 DeathEnhanced The Grand Exterminator Posted 13 years ago |
holding.... back.... tears..... |
#52315 bcoolface Key Master Posted 13 years ago |
make me the Snip3r |
#52317 drewdog50 Goatkeeper Posted 13 years ago |
@Ben D: *passes tissue* its okay ben, he didn't mean it! |
#52318 DeathEnhanced The Grand Exterminator Posted 13 years ago |
what's the point in writing something that long that no ones going to bother reading... |
#52325 TWiiSt3D Soul_SnipeZ Posted 13 years ago |
^ UHUH, MY POINT PRECISELY. ops caps. |
#52328 DeathEnhanced The Grand Exterminator Posted 13 years ago |
We need a registration system. Pay to play would be more ideal to get rid of trolls and griefers, but it would also lose too many serious players. With a registration system, no one is anonymous. People start getting reputations, griefers will be known and servers should be able to ban them. I agree, the game is fine, the people aren't but I haven't had a bad enough experience to quit yet. |
#52361 Jeff Member Posted 13 years ago |
A registation system would be great! But till its implanted it will take some time... |
#52370 Seeker Nazi Posted 13 years ago |
A little idea circulated/was debated in the staff channel recently.. the whole 'free to use' but 'pay to access some cool stuff'. |
#52372 TheGrandmaster Moderator Posted 13 years ago |
^ Sounds good, but should only be like $5 or something. And a one time payment defo. Then to get continues purchasing, some servers could cost money to enter, like $1 or somthing, just an idea. |
#52374 DeathEnhanced The Grand Exterminator Posted 13 years ago |
separating the free and paid members sounds really iffy to me. Yes, the premium servers would have less trolls and kids, but the free servers would be a hellhole filled with them. I won't argue if it ever does happen, but I'm cheap. I still think a (free) mandatory registration would do wonders. |
#52381 Jeff Member Posted 13 years ago |
This game is only a little more than 3 months old. Did we all expect a handful of releases dedicated to new content? What about technical stability, yet most importantly, flawless gameplay? Really, AoS involves malleable blocks and editable terrain. I can barely tolerate the griefing myself. However, this is a developer dedicating (hopefully) all his free time on a hobby. Solutions to the problems are circulating and being implemented this very moment. Don't expect too much out of one person. |
#52382 Lythrynyx Moderator Posted 13 years ago |
I don't like the paying idea but a sort of reputation system needs to be put in place with those who are kicked often and those who are given good rep. Like those who grief often require less votes and their votes count less. Also it's not the end of days. |
#52393 TyrannoDuck Member Posted 13 years ago |
I must admit, I do miss the "good old days" (like 3 moths ago lol) when griefing was at a minimum (hacking was in its prime though). Back when almost everyone on a server wanted to play the game the way it was meant to be played, working as an actual team in combat. Some of the best battles I've had were back in April/May, most of the current ones are just...meh. If we had some sort of registration, it would definitely help. |
#52424 POMF Technological Solutions™ Director of Renovations Posted 13 years ago |
Holy shit this is a long post. You could've votekicked 20 griefers in the time it took you to make this post. Good job, asswipe. |
#52428 Illimvra Member Posted 13 years ago |
-double post, removed-- |
#52432 POMF Technological Solutions™ Director of Renovations Posted 13 years ago |
Those that stay are either converted to Griefing or, god bless them, so enthralled with the game that they're desperately and at the moment vainly trying to enjoy it. I still love this game, i started playing at 0.52 not very long but still not very short too, it's very fun and im not vainly trying to enjoy the game i am enjoying this game. |
#52437 FireJetDragon FIRE FREAKING DRAGON Posted 13 years ago |
I for one, would definitely prefer some kind of registration system, to weapons and the like. |
#52446 machete don't text Posted 13 years ago |
If you didn't take the time to read this then you don't have the time to play this nor do you deserve to play. |
#52472 Masterbajurf Member Posted 13 years ago |
Heres how i see paying for premium and P2P/F2P servers. about half of the actual players pay for it (or less) and go to the servers where a griefer will come in mabey once every hour and get kicked relativly fast. then the other half of the actual players get stuck into a server where 3/4th of the people playing are griefers just trying to flatten the world and you cant kick any of them since they have the majority. Make the games linked to your forums account, boom registration done. |
#52493 Chipou Class-A Tree Posted 13 years ago |
If the game becomes pay-to-play anytime particularly soon, it'll probably die... people that have heard negative reports won't be willing to try unless it's completely free, and some of the current users wouldn't switch over to paying... we'd end up with a small community with a double-digit number of regular players. Those players would be legitimate and fun to play with, yes, but that's just not enough for a beta to grow from with paid registration. Jeff also raises a concern about the partially-paid idea, since that would effectively concentrate all the trolls and griefers into the free servers... that potential new users would be trying. They'd have a bad experience and never pay for a full membership. The AoS community needs to improve before people will pay money to join it, I think. What I'd really like to have for now is a better set of admin controls... I'm familiar with PySpades and have to say that it has a very nice admin system. Ben, you should talk with Mat and Hompy about incorporating some of the admin features into vanilla AoS, or come up with your own system. As it is now, even the server host can get votekicked on a vanilla server, which is wrong for obvious reasons. The, of course, the most popular suggestion of all: e-mail registration. As it is now all a griefer needs is a new IP... requiring a new email and account as well will at least slow them down a bit. The community has wanted registration for a long time now, and we'd love to get it so we can further hinder griefing and trolling. Oh, anc Chipou has a good idea... providing every forums account with a game account (or simply expanding forums accounts in game and forums accounts, so a single registration is used for the game and the forums) would be a good idea to make the switchover smoother and prevent anyone from creating a new account with a name that isn't theirs to rightfully take (say registration opens when, for example, Kaede-Chan is asleep and some skiddie makes an account with her name... she'd have to go to the trouble of getting the account cleared so she can get possession of her own name). |
#52517 1337101 Modifier Posted 13 years ago |
Needs optional registration with a one-time fee of 5-10 dollars, giving access to servers only registered users can play on. |
#52520 Kaede-chan (かえでーちゃん) Imageboard Moderator Posted 13 years ago |
^everyone above me was probably too lazy to read it. |
#52536 KomradeKevin Dah Bawss Posted 13 years ago |
I read it, I meh'd. |
#52538 Kaede-chan (かえでーちゃん) Imageboard Moderator Posted 13 years ago |
I read it as well. Figured I might be foolish about what was being discussed, rather than waste some perfectly good foolishness on some other random stuff. One idea I had a while back was to require a payment to play, but make it tiny... as in, one USD or less. It wouldn't really deter anyone from playing (if you have enough money for a computer and an internet connection, you should probably be able to spare a dollar), but it would require access to a credit card to purchase... for the kiddies, that means parental permission. Link it to an email registration, and link kicks and bans to the accounts, and a kiddie either has to wait out the ban to rejoin or get a new account. Suddenly, however, he has to pay another dollar to join... a kid might be able to fool his parents into buying the game more than once for them, but once the credit card bill shows up their AoS gaming is over. |
#52544 1337101 Modifier Posted 13 years ago |
The thing with registration is that bans and shit'll have to be reviewed once we get it, which means we need logs. Don't know how that's going to work. |
#52546 Kaede-chan (かえでーちゃん) Imageboard Moderator Posted 13 years ago |
Yes, we need to make sure that hosts can only ban people from their own servers. Ben, and possibly the current forums admins, should be the only people that can actually delete an account entirely. |
#52549 1337101 Modifier Posted 13 years ago |
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