I think that it should be kinda both,nerf a bit of the rifle(less ammo,more recoil),and buff the SMG and the shotty at the same time.For the SMG,increase the amount of ammo you carry around,there is enough ammo for 5~6 kills before you run out of ammo.For the Shotty,I think that increasing the number of pellets or the damage of each one would be enough.

If you ask me, you guys are being whiny pussies.

The SMG is fine as it is, since god knows SMG users spam a hell of a lot more than rifle users. "Oh, but Rusko, I can get sniped like nothing and I can't do anything about it".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw To my deaf friends in the audience or those who don't understand where a URL goes, stop whining.

This game is compared on the front page to be similar to Team Fortress. What's the idea of Team Fortress like? Different classes with different weaknesses and special abilities. THEREFORE, if you play Heavy, don't cry to make him faster. If you play Pyro, don't cry to give him a sniper rifle. The weapons are perfectly balanced. Maybe one or two imbalances, but whatever.

The Rifle owns from mid - long range.
Shotgun and SMG own short range.

You have no idea the amount of times in which I've been on a headshot spree with the rifle just to turn the corner to be shot up by some SMG user who can't aim or a shotgun user who bodyshots me till I'm done. This bothers and frustrates me, but I didn't make a thread saying both need to be nerfed to toys by tomorrow morning with the sunday paper the day before and alphabet soup that spells out the pledge of allegence. (I don't give a damn if I spelled that wrwong, I'm Canadian)

Just use better tactics, lazy fucks. Sneak behind us. Tunnel. Maybe don't charge straight at us next time with a shotgun while we're safe in a sniper's perch across the map.

...

Now THAT is how you win an arguement: Arnold Swarzaneggrareaareuaerblahfogeddit XP. You all know what I mean.

Rusko

You haven't read the thread.

The Rifle is as good at close range as the other guns, can be fired while moving easily (a feature only the shotgun has at the moment, and with more recoil and slower firing speed than the rifle), and is deadly accurate at close, medium, and long range. Just because you die by a gun that the Rifle is supposed to beat(And we all do, regardless of whether you use rifle or not) doesn't mean the gun is suddenly balanced.

The 'snipers perch' you describe is EXACTLY what I am advertising. Make the rifle a good SNIPER but not so hot a run and gunner. The fact that you MUST surprise a rifle user to kill him is already indicative of the rifle's power. If the rifle user spots you first, you better hope you can kill him before he gets 1-2 shots off. I don't charge straight at riflemen, I zig and I zag, and it's headshots all day every day.

TF2 also differs from Ace of Spades significantly in many aspects, one of which is that our heads make up ONE SOLID THIRD of our bodies, and crouching does NOT help conceal our gigantic heads from sniper fire; also, you must reveal your head to shoot your gun at opponents, which an accurate rifle user can take advantage of at any range.

How to fix:

Nerf the rifle based on how far away it was shot. If you shoot someone from 1-25 blocks away, you deal 20 less damage for body/limb shots and 40 for headshots. 26+ blocks away, it does current damage. Do not nerf the accuracy. This makes it a bullshit luck based weapon.

Make the shotgun shoot 9 pellets and give it more spread.

And bring in dirt grenades for cover. Everything gets killed by rifles in the open.

I dont like dirtnades.Not the way they are in the mods.If you're want the dirtnades,please make it a way that you can choose between a dirtnade and a normal grenade.Because I'm tired of throwing dirtnades at corners trying to kill snipers and it only give away my presence,cause it didnt fucking killed 'em.

> Reading through all this

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!
It is the epitome of candy-assness!!!!! My blood is boiling! I've always been against the addition of SMGs and shotguns and some noob has the balls to complain about the rifle! Are you serious?

Lol. I've always wanted a few more weapons (mainly a mountable machine gun), but I have no problem in dealing with the rifle's superiority.

Rock, paper, scissors.
When someone doesn't like what they can do, they chuck in dynamite. But then someone says "scissors cut the fuse" and it's balanced again.
My point is we should stop whineing about nerfing the rifle and focus on strengthening the other weapons.
Many have stated: The rifle is better than the other weapons. Well you just need to "betterize" the other weapons.
Think logically, if the SMG and shotgun got powered up so that they were on equal ground to the rifle, we wouldn't be having this argument.
Now I suggest we finish this with "the rifle is fine how it is" before ben reads this topic"

Frosty

More like Rock, Paper, Shotgun, based on how balanced the rifle is against the other weapons. Any realistic buff to the shotgun and SMG will still keep rifle in top tier because you can run while shooting and still maintain perfect accuracy. That's all I'm asking. Remove the impressive mobility and lethality gained by using the rifle without a scope and running around.

^ Paper or rocks could get in the barrel, causing the gun to explode when fired. Which could also kill the shotgun user.

actually the rock would simply get fired out of the barrel along with the slugs

Yeah, but that's what happens in action movies, so that's realistic right??

I think the rifle should be made into a bolt-action.

I'm an economics major. I think in terms of consequences for actions.

Lowering the ammo for the Rifle will encourage people to be more accurate with their shots in order to conserve ammo, and take longer to aim before shooting.

Lowering the rate of fire will not change anything except increasing survivability due to the down time between shots.

Lowering the rifle's accuracy will make people miss shots at long range more often and lower the effective range of the rifle, encouraging people to move closer to their opponents.

Making the rifle have a large kickback when standing and/or not scoped lowers its effectiveness at close range and encourages a 'sniper' mentality of camping in one place, shooting a few people, then moving to another place, rather than moving and shooting.

Changing rifle bodyshot damage from 49 to 40 would not affect rifle players much at all. Perhaps fewer kills would be gotten but the gameplay style of riflemen would not change.

So as in my "Rifle is unbalanced" thread, I recommend a large kickback for the rifle if not crouched or scoped, a decrease in the amount of ammo to 4-5 shots per clip, and a decrease in bodyshot damage from 49 to 35-40. Suddenly, the rifle becomes a sniper's weapon rather than a semi-automatic close-mid-long-range killing machine.

Reposted from another thread.

^ If you don't like the rifle, don't use it. Simple, eh? Use some other weapon that you do like instead, the majority of people want it to stay how it is, so it isn't going to change.

I wouldn't mind a decrease in clip size as long as the rifle gets its original 0.52 accuracy back. Convert the SMG in to a LMG/assault rifle, increase the shotgun's firepower if you (Ben) really want to.

Other than that, no.

POMF

Wasn't the Rifle a hitscan weapon prior to .52? If you shot at the head from any distance you would never miss as long as you were aiming for the head. You're asking for 100% accuracy? There isn't even any actual bullet travel time in Ace of Spades.

Nope, hitscan was added, to many people's dismay, in 0.58/0.59 (it might have been 0.53/0.54, but it's nearly impossible to gauge the rifle's effectiveness then since it was so inaccurate). In 0.52, if you were shooting at a moving target at a reasonably long range that was running perpendicular to your line of fire, you had to aim slightly in front of them to get the kill. But the rifle did shoot exactly where you aimed it if the target was stationary.

I personally think the Rifle is fine. Insane, yes, but hear me out.
What many people enjoy (to my confusion) are flat, open maps where you can build and take potshots at the enemy. However, this is NOT the way the game was first released as. It was released as a random map gen with hills and mountains.
Wait, those hills and mountains you see? They can be used to duck behind them and hide yourself so you can sneak up on them to use your shotgun or SMG.
Try it out while not on a flat map like Pinpoint or one of Goon's servers, and you'll see that the SMG and Shotgun are way more effective than usual.
And I HAVE read the thread, so don't tell me that I haven't. *cough*afewpostsabove*cough*

TL;DR: Get off Pinpoint and the other two guns are better.

The rifle can be used at close range, yes, but it takes substantially more skill to do so than it does to fight at close range with an SMG or shotgun.

i hope rifle doesnt get a downgrade just because u dont have any skill...

When will you people stop bumping this thread?
*bumps the thread*

Propably never

*bumbity bumb*

@POMF
I guess hitscan weapon reduces network usage and it is possible to remove trigger lag. By "weapon lag" i mean the difference what you see, and what acctualy happens - so if you see that you can hit the target, the target can be hit. Compare lag in CS and UT - CS have no trigger lag.

I say the Rifle should stay like the way it is now rather than making it less accurate.It's not really that bad.If you hate getting shot everytime why don't you just DEAL WITH IT and it's because that you suck.But the only problem is spawn campers,We just need to be Immortal for 5 second's when we spawn.

@RtMDL
No, the only problem are noobs who can't deal with spawn killers (not campers my friend), and start to whining about it. On flat maps with "5sec invincible" idea it would be impossible to steal intel.

BTW have you read whole thread before posting?

why can't people let this thread die or use the search function and discover that THIS EXACT TOPIC HAS SHOWED UP MORE THEN GOD KNOWS HOW MANY TIMES! I sware about 100 of the 400+ topics in suggestions is some one bitching about the current rifle balance and nerfing it to hell rather then suggesting improvements for the other two guns witch is really what ought to be happening fallowed by some ass-hat calling the poster a new fag! BLEH!

I am going to go get drunk now.