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  • The Rifle
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    Here I'm going to discuss why the Rifle is broken while still trying to be as non-partisan as possible. Contrary to popular belief on debates, I will try to even dispute my own arguments and point out any flaws in my argument. Us Americans are taught to win everything but I think healthy debates involve ones where both sides have the mindset that we'll all learn something from each other and fuse both ideas to make a better outcome.

    So basically my summary here is that the Rifle has an unfair advantage over everything due to its accuracy, distance, and damage it does as compared to all other weapons.

    This is under assumption that both people who are attacking each other at the same time have 100 HP each, have decent and/or superb aiming skills (at the head preferably), and are at a decent distance from each other, which is usually the case on most maps.

    Accuracy/Distance
    No question here; the Rifle has superb accuracy. The are no skews in the shots and you can hit anything spot-on from any distance. So, as before, with two people who actually know how to shoot, the one with the Rifle will kill you instantly.

    As compared with the SMG in a similar circumstance, you would begin to shoot at the Rifle but some shots would go around. Yes, the accuracy has improved, but it's not perfect, nor am I asking for it to be perfect, it's fine as is. At closer distances, the Rifle would also simply have to shoot first, possibly with a little delay even.

    As compared with the Shotgun in a similar circumstance, it wouldn't stand a chance. I've seen some "sniping" with the shotgun before but with personal experience I can't get kills for shit when I'm firing at someone 80,000 blocks away. At closer distances, once again, it's more of a matter of who pulls the trigger first.

    Damage
    The Rifle is an instant kill with a head shot. Body shots don't do as much and they'll probably lose if they don't get a head shot at close distances. At longer distances they probably could still win anyways even without head shots since the distance/accuracy on other weapons isn't as good. As I've stressed before, a seasoned Rifle could always get the kill with a headshot anyways.

    As compared with the SMG, the SMG doesn't do near as much damage and doesn't kill instantly with headshots. I'm not asking it to do that either. It probably would have to have its damage done bumped up by a few percent.

    As compared with the Shotgun, the Shotgun does more damage really but as said before, at longer distances it does not compare and up close it really depends who pulls the trigger on one's head first.

    Discussion
    Now, a few suggestions I've seen to fix the Rifle have been:

    >Lower The Accuracy
    Ok idea, but some ask for it to be thrown in the shitter. A better idea would for it to be lowered very slightly. This would even it out with other weapons just in case the SMG or Shotgun gets a little better in future updates.

    >Lower Clip Size
    I thought about this some and it seems ok but not. I don't have much to say about this really.

    >Lower Damage
    Maybe. Big maybe. I don't think that'd be the best idea. With lower accuracy at longer distances with the Rifle other weapons might stand a little more chance. The Rifle would still trump anyways up close.
    '
    >Other Stuff?
    I can't remember any more suggestions. In my opinion lowering the accuracy very slightly would help the best because it would even it out with other weapons as they are improved any, as in the case of the SMG which is probably going to be powered up a bit. However, the Rifle does need to be fixed a little bit based upon its current state. Too drastic suggestions will nerf the Rifle to hell and too subtle ones won't change much, probably in the case of my "just lower the accuracy a little". So hopefully we can find some sort of middle ground here

    #94446
    seadra
    the
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    hey, nice ideas. i think that i agree with most of what you said. i think lowering the accuracy would be fine, just make it so standing up the shots fired are less accurate, but they're accurate again when you crouch. lowering the clip size would be fine, i dont think it really has too much of an effect. the damage can stay, i think, maybe making it 4 hits to the body instead of 3, or just lowering the numbers, so it is not like you are left with 2 HP after two body shots.

    i agree that when the other weapons are improved, the rifle probably wouldn't need to be nerfed so much. but i still think its accuracy should be reduced a little bit, not like what it was in .54 or whatever, but just a little bit of inaccuracy while standing/moving for more balance

    #94473
    Priok
    Spectonaut
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Here we go again. :D

    What are your thoughts of the lower rate of fire and increased recoil?

    Accuracy/Distance
     At closer distances, once again, it's more of a matter of who pulls the trigger first.

    This is my main problem with rifle; at close it's who shoots decently first.
    At long to very long ranged the winner is pretty much always the rifle.
    At medium range smg might win if the rifleguy doesn't have a quick and steady hand. Shotgun still loses.

    >Lower The Accuracy
    Ok idea, but some ask for it to be thrown in the shitter. A better idea would for it to be lowered very slightly. This would even it out with other weapons just in case the SMG or Shotgun gets a little better in future updates.

    Community didn't respond kindly to this in 0.54 so we can say that this is out of the question?

    #94479
    Tek2
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Rifle accuaracy actually gets worse with continous fire fyi.
    Meh idc about clip size that much, but It might get annoying.
    No way would I lower the damage of the rifle, it's like taking away a fishes fins.
    I agree, smg need a buff.

    #94481
    [EX]Frosty
    Best Served Chilled
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Honestly, I say that the OTHER guns should just be improved while decreasing the usabilty of the Rifle. :-\ The Rifle is too powerful compared to the others, so it should obviously be fixed in those areas that you stated. But the other weapons need to be improved in specific ways too. :(

    #94486
    Soap
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    I think we shouldn't mess with accuracy. nuff said.

    #94492
    [EX]Frosty
    Best Served Chilled
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    OP is very good.

    Basically rifle is perfect, and any nerfs would ruin it (except clip size reduction)
    But the SMG is really weak in every way. If assaulting a rifle man he headshots you faster before you killed him. The shotgun needs no change (though 1-2 pellets extra would be better to increase range a little more, considering everyone uses rifle), but everyone uses rifle because: everyone uses rifles. Just how TF2 Snipers cause other TF2 Snipers. The rifle is the only way to deal with them if you want a less chance getting killed.

    #94518
    [PMS]fleek%
    Seabreeze
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    The only problem I have with combating rifles with rifles is that I don't feel like using the Rifle, as I normally grief and wouldn't mind using the SMG as my shooting gun as well while not being raped by everything else.

    Higher kick/lower rate of fire could be fair I guess. Very little though haha. Like when I say very little in my posts here I'm talking like 1 or 2% or somewhere around there. Like right now say the Rifle is 100% accurate we maybe lower it to 98%.

    I don't know what to say about improving other weapons really. SMG does need a little buff but idk what to say about the shotgun lol

    #94618
    seadra
    the
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    If the problem lies within the context that the OP specified, then there's only one realistic fix to the balance problem.

    This is to maintain the rifle as an accurate, mid-range weapon, but reducing damage to something that lacks instant kill headshots. The current rifle is more like a sniper rifle and hunting rifle combined. Too powerful. There needs to be a way to distinguish mid-range and long-range engagement, and reducing accuracy isn't the answer to that.

    However, removing the instant kill means adding in a fourth weapon somewhere during the course of Ace of Spade's development, the sniper rifle (i.e. the only weapon that should instant kill upon a headshot).

    #94651
    AdjacentKitten
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Headshot = 99 dmg
    Body shot = 40 dmg
    Limb shot = 15 dmg

    There.

    #94660
    Pulchritude
    MACHA Project
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    I say lower the clip size, this way you can't just come bursting in, whipping out headshots, you should have to reload sooner, and then you're fucked.

    #94666
    KomradeKevin
    Dah Bawss
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Also, im british, so the "Us americans" Is a little incorrect.

    #94667
    [EX]Frosty
    Best Served Chilled
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    You know, Pulch's idea isn't actually half bad. :D

    #94669
    Soap
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Unless he meant "US Americans" as in United States Americans.

    DUN DUN DUN.

    #94672
    Pulchritude
    MACHA Project
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Pulch has the right idea, though the damage would need to be lower than 99. Something like 75. Still needs two shots to kill, but doesn't instantly make any following hit from a different player instant death either.

    #94677
    AdjacentKitten
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    OP: Nope.

    #94679
    Cpt.Crow
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    yeah, lower the accuracy to like 95 or 98 percent, just so it has a chance of missing, but isnt insane.

    for the shotgun, maybe just a few more pellets would be good, it's actually a great weapon, you just have to play completely differently. sometimes i will use it, and get kills a lot, but i think it depends on the map, somewhat

    #94687
    Priok
    Spectonaut
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    There's no reason to reduce the accuracy for the rifle.. especially seeing as accuracy is such a minor factor in the problem that spawned this thread. >.> Sort of.

    #94695
    AdjacentKitten
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    I would suggest lowering clip size (5 rounds?) and lowering the fire rate (maybe about to that of the shotgun), as it can cut down on rifle spam. The rifle will still kill you at short range, but it'd be much harder if the rifle man misses your head on the first shot.

    #94698
    Thunderstorm
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Oh, THIS thread again.

    #94745
    [EX]mman789
    that dude
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    Yes sir, it's this thread.

    #96235
    Pulchritude
    MACHA Project
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    I'll be the first to say it.

    Let's do one thing that the CoD series managed to do right and completely fucked up afterwards by removing it: Make every weapon a one-shot kill to the head.

    Can we just do that? For a day? God forbid it actually works.

    #96292
    N64>DeuceWithIt
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    The problem with nerfing the rifle is that people will rage.

    Instead of breaking the rifle so every weapon is crap, improve the other two weapons so that they are all awesome. Then everyone will be happy.

    #96481
    Zinger
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
     

    As I see it the reason mostly isn't the rifle itself, but the tendency for AoS maps to be huge and open, where weapons such as the rifle excel because there is no time to close in for cqc.

    Another reason why the rifle dominates is because the SMG is too unwieldy to be that assault type weapon that it tries to be. I do agree that the first step would be to power up the other weapons.

    #96766
    infonoob
    Member
    Posted 11 years ago
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