...the SMG is overpowered.

The rifle is still superior at absolute fog distance, but only by a slim margin. I've exchanged fire with riflemen at fog or near-fog and won with the SMG... not quite as many times as I lost, admittedly, but definitely more often then I really should have. It's made the shotgun almost totally redundant as well... at one point I killed four people within ten blocks of me in the space of five seconds using the SMG, which I could never have done with the shotgun. Any range that the SMG can't cover the spade will handle now.

Add in the destructive capacity of the SMG, and we're dealing with something more like a full machine gun. There's no "S" in "SMG" anymore. At the very least, the gun should have kick to match its punch.

Frankly, I don't really see a reason to use the shotgun anymore, and the rifle's now only good for fog-distance sniping (or, arguably, the extremely pro. We're talking so pro you don't see the need for aimbots, though. Most players, myself included, have yet to obtain such a status).

Now do people understand why I liked it the 0.58 way?

Dude shut up. -___________-' Grow up, quit whining, and just get better at the game. You have NO idea how much I'm hating these kinds of people like the one you're being are...

you shut up, i have never liked SMG and i have tryed it muiltiple times and i will never like it, i agree with the first guy

I agree that the SMG should get a little more recoil, maybe less bullets(lower it to 20, so you can still get 10 kills a clip, like before), and some damage reduction at range, just to balance things out. it's pretty cool to snipe things with it, but it seems almost better than the semi for sniping. the sniping should take some more skill, with it, or something like that.

the shotgun doesn't need too much, just a damage or pellet increase would be good enough. if you know what you're doing, you can get a lot of kills with it, you just have to play a different way

Initial release: "the smg sucks :("
First buff: "SMG still sucks waah"
Second buff: "SMG is TOO GOOD!! make it worse please!"

^ Exactly.And people are right to want it to be nerfed now.Like that guy said,it no more need the S.Now,its just too good.Maybe lower the mag to 25 or 20,or give just 4 mags(making up to 120 bullets,as opposed to 150 now).Before I already liked the SMG,it was fun to go guns blazing in the green base,in pinpoint,and using the rifle for sniping,but now,the rifle has no more purpose.The SMG is the "new rifle".

It all boils down to skill in the end anyways. I've killed plenty of people from long range with the SMG, but you know what? I knew I could have won with a rifle had I been the other person. The SMG has just been beefed up to rifle status, and riflefags are mad.

Deal with it.

If the SMG stays the same, then I suggest we have it renamed to "Assault Rifle".
ar.kv6

the smg is too op... give it more spread and it would be more balanced...
at the moment the rifle is for long range... the smg is for long, middle and short range and the shotgun is for short range =P kind of unbalanced right =?

Ya,exactly what I meant for "new rifle".Before,the rifle was an all-purpose weapon.Now,that status belongs to the SMG,one could win at almost any range with the rifle then,and with the smg now,if he has the right aim.

...you can still win at any range with the rifle. The shotgun is undoubtedly useless. Then again, a few of us had said that even before the shotgun was added. Now, the SMG is more like an LMG, and it's perfectly fine. I still manage to slaughter SMG users with a rifle; stay in cover, always make sure the enemy can only shoot you from one side (preferably head on, so you have a chance of reacting). But the bottom line, stay in cover. I played on Goon Haven earlier today (as GONSTER_GIBBLES) and I constantly saw a bunch of jackasses on my team just running out there in the open and getting slaughtered by SMGs. In most of the instances where me and the SMGer saw each other at the same time, I won the firefight with a quick headshot. The SMG is fine, leave it alone.

cover =?
You need a 4 block thick wall to have cover against smgs =P

@Pulchritude
it doesn't really matter what it's called since you can use a mod to make it look anyway you want.

You need a 4 block thick wall to have cover against smgs =P

No.

I honestly can't see the problem with the SMG, I just finished another match on Goon Haven (I was playing as "Galaxy" this time) and I have no idea what all the fuss is about. I still manage to whoop most SMGers asses, and the few times that I did end up getting killed by one, it was either; A.) They shot me from the side/behind. B.) They shot me through a wall after I had already ducked (lag). The rifle still easily outmatches the SMG at all ranges.

While it's not a good argument (since it's subjective, then again, this whole "SMG is overpowered" thing is subjective), those of you who can't combat the SMG must just suck. No offense.

And yes, it does seem like more of an assault rifle/LMG, which is fine with me. I never wanted a SMG in the first place. Now all we need is a mountable machine gun, and I'll be somewhat satisfied.

Sure. If you guys like the lighter recoil so much, then keep it. But change the dmg.

"I won with the SMG... not quite as many times as I lost"
Isn't this the definition of underpowered?

What's the point of using a gun if it's less effective than another?

yeah bitch I pretty much suck at this game, I know... I'm pretty much the worst player who's on the forum >.< and I can deal with that^^

I would like to see the smg with much more dmg 100;100;100 would fit very well ;D

@Curl

I know that, but there is a high difference between a SMG and Assault Rifle.

The SMG is now an Assault Rifle and should be named as such.

My idea:
Reduce the damage.
And swap out the shotgun for something more effective e.g assault rifle.

Assault rifles are effective at ranges around 300m, which the current SMG is not.

If a proper AR is included in the game, it'd basically push away both the semi and the SMG, since it'd be superior to both of them at the ranges where you most encounter combat in the game.

Current iteration of the SMG is fine - it's a viable choice, but some people are still going to prefer the semi.

...or, arguably, the extremely pro. We're talking so pro you don't see the need for aimbots, though. Most players, myself included, have yet to obtain such a status.

As a regular semi user, this made me smile.

The US Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges.

and if Dany0's post is true, which is located http://ace-spades.com/forums/topic.php?id=7158#post-119448

Then yes, I'd consider it an AR.

It's really not that bad. I just jump and duck around and then when I hear them reloading I go in for the kill.

Heres what I think.
Increase the spread once it gets past meduim range more then BAM we have long, medium, and short range weapons.

^thats what I think too ;D

My idea: SMG power drops after certain distance, making it mid-range weapon, and having a good reason for AR. Gravity affected bullets would make a nice place for the sniper rifle. And vehicles for heavier weapons (RPG's, mountable machine guns, mortars, etc). Melee attack for weapons. Anything else? Oh yeah, Pick-shovel! A combination of a pick and a shovel! (example: http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Folding-Shovel-and-Pick/dp/B0009PUTES )

@Soap: Nice talking to you, too.

@Kanye: While I've seen that a lot, I wasn't complaining about the SMG being underpowered at any point. I didn't even mind the first, leaked version, when a lot of other people were whining about it non-stop.

@Danke: That was referring to fog-distance engagements only. Engagements at all ranges considered, I was on fire.

@Pulchritude: You're right to classify it as an assualt rifle. It feels almost exactly like the assualt rifles found in many other shooters now, and I liked AoS so much in the first place because the gun mechanics were special.

I beg to differ.
http://ace-spades.com/forums/topic.php?id=7348

I think it's easyer to get 10+ kill streaks with the rifle than smg :p
shotgun is useless thoug, that's the real problem.

Soap, stop doing your -______________-' face, it pi$ses me off