@corgi
Who the heck survives getting shot in the head by an smg or a shotgun?

You'd be surprised. The shotgun is a fickle beast - one second it's almost as if I can snipe with it, the other it's seemingly useless (like say shots to the head at close range not killing!).

The semi is pretty much a sniper rifle. I don't see a point in adding a sniper rifle when we already have one. In fact, we should just rename the semi to a sniper rifle.

Also, to balance it, lower the magazine capacity. 5 shots before the magazine empties would be the best solution.

@OP
Oh look another player who started playing in 0.54 and who also has no skill.

Think about it this way, MoleMan. The rifle is a sniper, ok?
You get hit from 500 feet away, and you die.
You get hit from 3 feet away, and you take no damage at all?
A bullet is a bullet, it's gonna hurt like hell whether you were shot from a mile a way or a meter away. It may have dropoff and less velocity at longer ranges, but if it hits you you'll still bleed. The point is that there is no possible way for it to hurt less at short ranges and still make a bit of logical sense. In fact, in real life it would be LESS effective towards enemies from farther distances due to the above mentioned changes through longer ranges.

And ALSO; I'd like to question your sanity. What kind of shotgun takes two hits to kill?
What kind of server mods are you even running, boy?

Dude. It's about the rifles BALANCE.

Not the friken physics.

The rifle is too good for everything. It's even better then the shotgun at close range since the shotgun can't instakill.

^^ HSs in AoS take no skill.

How dare you. how can you say the rifle is unbalanced? If anything, the other weapons are underpwered, its not the rifles fault it's colleagues are pointless. If you were going to change the game, leave the rifle as is, but beef up te other weapons. With fog on, theres no 50 mile away headshots, the rifle is good if you know how to use it, and how to avoid it.

>rifle
>only weapon that kills with one shot

not true.

Other than that, I won't even bother commenting on the rest of the OP.

Shotgun can insta-kill.
And instead of picking on rifle, look at the other weapons. The smg needs a buff, so why not buff the shotty too?
Plus, I bet you've never been shotgun sniped, thats why you don't think the shotgun can instant-kill.

Frosty
I started playing when the Rifle was the only gun (/v/ introduced the game to me). Adding an SMG means balance needs to be done (hence v5.4) since it isn't the only gun on the block anymore. I get good results with the rifle but it takes a lot more involvement to even stand a chance with an SMG/Shotgun in comparison.

Miggles
I didn't say necessarily to reduce the damage at close range, just to make it UNWIELDY at close range. Make the recoil ridiculous. Reduce the ammo count. Anything to make it so if you start shooting without being immobile and/or in sights ruins your accuracy. I can POTENTIALLY wield a sniper rifle in real life at close range, but it will be clunky and the kickback would make it impossible to aim more than one shot... not to mention I'd have to reload while that guy with the shotgun/SMG comes after me. But as it is, the recoil is small enough and the accuracy high enough that you can use the rifle... while moving... to shoot medium range targets. The Rifle is good at Close, Medium, and Long range. That is the problem. Read the thread, I've mentioned it multiple times.

And as for what shotgun takes two shots to kill, the answer would be one fired at medium range. :)

Doodrgn
The shotgun kills at close range, but you literally have to be within breathing range to do so. Rifles can do so from any range with good results. Remember when testing for pickaxe melee began? One hit KOs were possible, but not realistically so.

Frosty
The shotgun can do one-shot headshots?

Again, my ideas in the first post offer solutions that, individually, would help balance the rifle. The rifle isn't 'fine as it is', the rifle needs to have downsides so that it isn't a versatile 'be all end all' weapon. At the moment its downsides are far outweighed by its upsides, and that is being able to outclass every other weapon at any range unless the rifleman suffers a flanking attack.

perhaps we need a gun to end all guns?

I just skim-read the entire topic so I'm probably regurgitating points already brought up, but the people defending the rifle to the hilt have probably never seriously used the SMG or Shotgun. Try spending a few hours as an SMG user or shotgunner, and then see if you think the rifle is perfect.

If you're all so adamant about not tweaking the rifle, then every headshot must be an instant kill. There is no two ways about it. Rifle has no competition at long range, and can easily take down people up close, too. The original rifle was good when there were no other guns and everyone was in the same boat, but now it's just too overpowered.

To those of you who would cry that it would overpower the other weapons, then exactly, but only in the areas they're meant to be overpowered in, such as the shotgun devastating in CQC, and the SMG being very effective in a mid-range. Sure, you'd have some SMG'ers getting lucky with long-range headshots but that'd be the exception, not the norm, and would require everyone to manoeuvre to avoid getting their faces blown off, not just us SMG'ers and shotgunners.

Another alternative would be to halve the rate of fire for the rifle. I doubt that would be a very popular idea, but neither was autoclimb when it came out and you don't hear any voices of dissent anymore about that.

How about make the rifle fire slightly less rapidly, increase recoil a bit, put clip size to 8?

@MoleMan
You really don't know even what the hell you're talking about bro.
Not all rifles of all kinds kick like a horse. Different calibers are more powerful, and chances are that this is a 7.62x39 round that the AoS rifle shoots.
It is a powerful round, but it does not kick your ass to the floor. It's quite easy for a grown man to fire it fully automatically for prolonged periods of time during wars. (Read: AK47)

Anyway, I agree that it isn't the rifle that needs a nerf, but other weapons need buffs.
The SMG is too unstable to use very easily. Crouching helps, I supposed, but you aren't meant to camp in one spot with a fully automatic weapon in a game like this.
The shotgun should also be somewhat longer range. (I can see the incoming waves of hate already.)

@CommandoDude Are you 12? Balance may be important, but logistically it makes no sense at all. Just because it's a video game doesn't mean it can't physically provide any form of common sense.

@MoleMan: I'd like to add my two cents into this debate and say that only those with good reflexes can make the Rifle a devastating weapon in short range.

I'm best with the Rifle as long as my targets don't get within breathing range. They do that, and I displace and try to shake them off. I am near complete shit when it comes to aiming at close range with it.

I've also used the SMG quite a few times, it's surprising how many kills you can get from medium range if the target's unaware. (Although I was playing at Pinpoint at that time)

All I'm going to say that it may not be the weapon that's the problem but the one who wields it. (Again, I may be ill informed, but this is what I think about the issue at the moment)

^Agree.

^ I agree in you agreeing with him. xD

I say make them all overpowered, if they are all overpowered, they are all balanced=none of them overpowered.

don't ruin the rifle. seems like you got sniped alot and then got pissed and went into the forums to complain. rifle is fine leave it alone just improve shotgun and smg. shotgun needs to shoot faster and smg needs to be able to kill faster

Actually. I just thought, but if you make the rifle wildly inaccurate when it isn't scoped. That would be a much better balancing option.

Actually. I just thought, but if you make the rifle wildly inaccurate when it isn't scoped. That would be a much better balancing option.

No it wouldn't. Why even bother with the ability to hip fire if it's useless?

don't ruin the rifle. seems like you got sniped alot and then got pissed and went into the forums to complain. rifle is fine leave it alone just improve shotgun and smg. shotgun needs to shoot faster and smg needs to be able to kill faster

Now you're talking.

If you think the rifle is "overpowered" now, you should have seen it pre-0.53/0.54.

Then again, nobody complained back then because it was the only usable weapon (and because it was fucking awesome). If anything, make the rifle pin-point accurate again, then increase the effectiveness of the SMG/shotgun.

"No it wouldn't. Why even bother with the ability to hip fire if it's useless?"

That's the point.

Make it balanced.

Why should the rifle totally outclass every other weapon in the game? It's even better then the shotgun at close range because it's super easy to get headshots even hipfiring.

Hey guys, I know! Let's have the damage of the Semi be 150 damage on every part, OH and SUPER ACCURATE. and a magazine for 120 rounds, and fully automatic, and it goes through the map and blocks without stopping.

Oh here's an even better idea! The bullets should home on the other team's head! You should have the ability to switch between the modes of the gunfire!

In fact, you know what we should just do? We should make the shotgun suck shit at close range by lowering the damage completely to 1 damage per pellet, and the SMG should have the ability to be inaccurate as fuck and it should also be switched to a single shot gun.

YEAH GREAT IDEA GUYS.

http://i.imgur.com/Kfx3z.jpg

Read it again, Dude: "Why even bother with the ability to hip fire if it's useless?"

If you're going to change something so that it becomes nigh on useless, why even bother to include it?

And as many people said, balance can be achieved by making the SMG (and the shotgun, if you really think so) better, to be on par with the rifle. Much better to have three good guns in the game than three equally mediocre guns.

Nigh on useless?

Are you high?

The rifle RULES at long range (Actually, it pretty much rules at all ranges) and nothing would change that even if you took away its hip firing capability. How can you make any gun compete with it when it is already the best gun in the game?

You CAN'T make the other guns good enough to compete with the rifle. The rifle has no drawback or weakness.

TO ALL NEW FAGS

if you think the current .58 rifle is OP then think again. Do you know why it was unnerfed?
Because in pre.53 it was pinpoint accurate.
Then Ben added a RANDOM cone of fire to .54, many people didn't like that at all.
And now in .58, he didn't return it to pinpoint accuracy but reduced the cone of fire.

so don't go saying that the rifle is OP if you haven't even been playing the game from the start or near start...OR MAYBE. you just suck. FYI, you would've sucked way harder in pre.54

^+1
Lay off the rifle OP, focus on improving OTHER weapons so that there as good as the rifle.

I don't care either way, reducing the magazine capacity doesn't really nerf it.

But just think about this. By buffing up the SMG and Shotgun, you're creating twice as much work for Ben, instead of him just setting the a lower magazine.

Actually, it's probably even more than twice. Maybe like 4x as much work.

Forgive me for being rude towards whoever I may refer to but if you're engaging a Rifle-user at long to medium range where the Rifle rules supreme then I say you're doing it wrong.

Make a 2 x 3 wall, dig a trench, do anything to keep yourself from the Rifleman's line of fire but for Pete's sake, do not start shooting at him nor do you try to shoot him up front. Also, get the hell closer to him.

The Rifle is best when sniping unaware targets at medium to long ranges. Remove that, and the Rifle is only as powerful as the wielder allows it to be. One lone Rifleman versus 2 to 3 SKILLED SMG/ Shotgun wielders should mean that the Rifleman will die in the very least.

I agree with Beret, just make the SMG and Shotgun better at what they do.