-no sound when you run
-silent weapon with a *vip* kind of sound
-a melee weapon
-faster walking speed?
:D

Griefers wouldn't waste their time to do that. I should remind you that griefers most of the time are against their team, not for it.

@Spengbab

Who says they have to switch teams? What if they could put on a disguise and sneak over to the enemy side without actually joining their team? The only way the enemy would be able to figure out if you were a spy would be if they moused over you and noticed that a name didn't pop up.

Griefing is only griefing because it makes the game less fun for everyone. If, instead, it became a part of the game, it would no longer make the game less fun and so would no longer be griefing. The question I am asking is how would the game have to be changed in order for espionage to be fun for both sides.

@Pvt Ryan

That's the idea. Griefers are basically trolls, and if they see that they aren't making anyone mad, they'll quit (or find another way to piss people off).

^This would nerf griefing.

So let me get this straight.

The act of players switching from one team to the other to either spy or grief structures should be implemented as another in-game tactic.

Espionage.

You know, water will always be water, no matter what phony label you manage to plaster onto the bottle.

@1337101

No, cheating doesn't belong in AoS. However, it doesn't HAVE to be cheating if the game mechanics are changed balance it out. So, in your opinion, what game mechanics would need to be changed/added to make espionage a legitimate tactic?

@outwrangle: Yes, but in real war you can always actually shoot the guy causing trouble. That's not always the case in AoS.

I'd also like to point out that while I like realism, when realism is definitely detracting from the gameplay it has no place in a game. Cheating doesn't belong in AoS. Are aimbotting and foghacking and speedhacking OK?

@Spengbab

Fuck no. I hate them. Thing is, they won't go away.

Maybe, instead of ruining the game while combating them, we should embrace them and turn griefing into another dimension of how the game is supposed to be played.

@1337101

Espionage is a part of real war. It's not cheating.

@outwrangle: The way to enrich the gameplay for everyone is to...

...make better admin controls so the twerps get kicked and banned faster. That's just how it is: You cheat, you get kicked.

Covering up for griefing, I see.

@Chipou

Yes, as the game currently is, those behaviors would be classified as griefing.

That's why I'm asking what sorts of game mechanics would need to be added to change it from griefing to a legitimate tactic. After all, griefers gonna grief, so it might as well be turned it into a legitimate gameplay element.

Then again, this may be a horrible idea since it would only encourage more creative kinds of rule breaking.

@1337101

Players are going to do it anyway, so we might as well find a way to use their mischief to enrich the gaming experience for everyone. At least that's the idea.

If you teamswitch to destroy enemy fortification, thou art a coward and a scoundrel. May thine unworthy posterior be votekicked.

"@Chipou
Spying on enemies and sabotaging fortifications."

...so helpful, im asking like is it like a guy switched sides and is doing that? did a guy enter and start doing that to his own team? because both is classified as griefing.

the only way that would be acceptable would be if tf2 classes were implemented (which they wont, so it wont ever be acceptable)

You could kill them and they would respawn in jail.

@Chipou

Spying on enemies and sabotaging fortifications.

@Pvt Ryan

I would like an enemy capture system in place, but I'm not sure how it would work.

We would need a jail to throw the traitor in. They would get freed when the jail is destroyed by the other team or when the other team's intel is captured.

And they could get team killed at any time.

and by espionage you mean?...

In your opinion, what game mechanics would need to be changed/added to make espionage a legitimate tactic?