How is sprinting even possible? since most of the time you have to jump
What would be good is better jumping as right now its a pain
As for tunnels they already have a speed advantage
What this game really needs is some kind of artillery or more explosives

Everything balances each other out.

Sniper nest? Burn it out or drop a bunker buster on it.
Machine guns fucking your shit up? Go Saving Private Ryan on it and snipe that shit and burn any survivors
Pesky flamethrower? Snipe it, or if you're feeling ridiculous, drop a mortar on it.
Shotguns? Shotgun them back.

Everything gets balanced out.

I disagree with everything said in the thread. I better ban you all.

the healing system should be like L4D

Yes, I think this game needs some variety. Yet at the same time, it needs to stay simple and open-ended enough to allow the players to think independently. Not doing exactly what the game suggests you do. Also, I think this game is striving for more original gameplay mechanics, not like mainstream FPS's. There are not a lot of games left with this kind of slower paced, tactical feel to it. Yes, there are a ton things to be improved, including environment and more tactical options and yes DA HACK3RS :( but I hope in the future it does not change too too too much that it is unrecognizable.

I guess what I want is a game I can stop playing for a month, go back again and experience players executing all new tactics still using the same materials they had a month earlier.
aosftw

I think we know the general hatred about snipers, but let me clarify on why shotguns and MGs would be terrible by giving a situation.

-----------

You're at your intel, building a little one man bunker/lookout. Things are going swimmingly until you hear a "THUMP". You just lost 40 health. Frantically, you flail around, trying to find the shooter, when you're shot once more. You run to cover, and you think you are safe, but in the next instant you got shot in the head.

You spawn, and see one of your squadmates die. Fortunately, you see the bullet trail and track it to a tiny hole in a nearby hill. You run to a nearby wall and peek out. You see no one, except the hole, and begin to run towards it because you have the opportunity.

SITUATION ALTERATION ONE (Machine Gun):

You peek out, and see the head of a blue soldier. His machine gun is mounted, and as soon as you're spotted, your little green head gets riddled with rapidly firing bullets. Because all headshots are instant kills, you're dead. Right there. bam. Soon, after many attempts of trying to overtake the hill, you give up, and for a good amount of time after that your spawn is camped by a machinegunner, until your faithful team self-designated ninja dispatches him after a while.

END ALTERATION (Back to normal):

You charge the hill while there's still nobody there. You find the little hole where the camper was shooting out of, and you mine through it. After delving through, you realize the camper made quite the little system of tunnels. Eventually, you come across and ambush, and you're face to face with this camper

SITUATION ALTERATION 2 (shotgun)

He shoots you. Right in the chest. Because you're close enough because it's a cramped tunnel, all the pellets hit you and, well, down you go. Sorry.

END ALTERATION (back to normal):

Now, this situation could go both ways because you have the SAME WEAPONS and, while he is at a situational advantage, you are both technologically equal. Either you, the AoS veteran, snap your un-scoped reticule to his head and pop him off. Right in that little camper's face. The other way it could go is that you both go into a silly jumping body shot fest and the round is up to the dogs on this one.. But he'll probably win because you walked into the trap.

So what will shotguns do?

Ruin any sort of close combat encounters, unless the rifle wielder is a headshot reflex god. If you're ambushed, you know you're just fucked then and there. When both parties have rifles, the ambusher STILL has a huge advantage and probably will win, but it always gives the ambushee a chance to survive... There are plenty of times where I've been ambushed from behind in a tunnel and I spin around and shoot his head, making his ambush fire. Not to brag, but it's just a real situation

What will machine guns do?

Make camping even more abundant. Make advancements into enemy territory more difficult. It will deteriorate the aspect of AoS that each player can be an infiltrator. It will turn the game more into a game of hiding and camping and ruin the option of people taking on independent quests into enemy territory. Plus, spawn camping will be even WORSE if the spawn camper has an MG.

Again, I'm not mentioning snipers because we can all assume what I could say about the weapon.

I think there should be a pistol. First, the rifle doesn't need to be revamped, you can headshot and quickscope almost across the map, and its ridiculously powerful and accurate. We don't really a need a melee weapon. It would be fun, but have you really been in a situation where you needed some brass knuckles (seriously, I want to know)? The reason we would have a pistol is for that awkward middle range. We've all been in that situation where we had that awkward rifle "dance" with the enemy, and every time you fire, the recoil screws up your aim, and you just go in circles. A pistol would be perfect because it would have:
half the damage as the rifle
1/4 the range
but no recoil
this means, it won't be used as a crazy cross map murder machine, but a weapon like the grenade, useful in only ONE situation.
I also think there should be e new map setup. Maybe flatter, trenches, elaborate buildings, stuff like that.
I think the map should be interactive: stone, trees, maybe small boats!
Also, we need some sort of medic system. it can be a piece of crap that takes a minute to work and only heals fifty damage, but thats still better than nothing!!
MGs would be iffy, and if they are used, should only be fired when "mounted", have aweful accuracy, and low damage.
Also, air support. That was huge in the first world war. We could have mustard gas and mortars. Mortars for bunkers, and gas for large groups of enemies. Of course, they would have to be extremely restricted.
Oh, and BETTER IRON SIGHTS. I HATE them so much.

bump this

Then I think we are both saying the same thing ^^.

I think what we have here is a disagreement about the definition of "camping". I, too, detest killwhoring campers who do nothing but camp. However, holding a bunker or defending some trail the other team tends to use isn't that bad and I think should even be encouraged.

So let me say that I agree with you that camping isn't fun. Defending, however, is fun, and attacking against what seem to be impregnable defenses, and finally, after blood, sweat, and tears, overcoming them, is fun as well.

Camping isn't fun except for the campers. They slow games and often they tend to be killwhores, ruining the game for both teams.

However, I like your mg idea, it is simlar to WWI MGs; slow and innaccurate, leaving the gunner vulnerable too.

However, that said, I do not think it would be wise to add the MG before light artillery, for artillery would be a great counter to camping Machinegunners.

Snipers: I completely agree with OP. The rifle is good enough as is. Of course, if its accuracy is lowered in the future, a sniper rifle might become a feasible weapon.

MGs: they would have to have a set-up time, and a low accuracy unless fired in short bursts, but if these are taken into consideration, I'm all pro-MG. I disagree with Jacob above in that in most FPS games, I find the -lack- of proper defensive weapons annoying, since defense indeed is one of the important aspects of warfare.

Pistols: No. The only way I've ever seen the pistol sidearm used is rapidly changing to use it when your main weapon runs out of ammo in a close quarters combat. I don't want to see this in AoS, since it'd ruin the enjoyable slow-ish feeling of the game.

Artillery: Light artillery is a must. With a set-up time, low accuracy and slow reloading, artilllery helps fighting deeply entrenched enemies without being too overpowered.

Camping? A problem? No. Camping is part of war, and more so of trench warfare. Live with it. As long as it's not done with an overpowered scoped sniper rifle (as it often is in mainstream FPSs), I'm ready to enjoy it. In this kind of a game, where you can yourself dig bunkers and shooting holes, I think banning camping wouldn't be a good idea.

The reason MGs would be an issue is because of camping. With mortars and other light artillery I believe MGs might be less of an issue; if you then decrease the max angle at which MGs can fire then I think it would also be easier to balance mgs.

The thing is that I don't like the idea of weapons being added specifically for defense; same goes for mines. Submachineguns, shotguns, and mortars are all offensive weapons. Machineguns on the other hand are(if we talk about the WWI era) defensive weapons.

That's true too. But I think we should worry about what the structure is going to be like and what this game is designed to be. I have to say the only things that irritate me are the graphics and all the hackers and griefers. Even the graphics are acceptable because they're simple and lie in the charm of the game.

If we actually think about what Jacob said, there's just so many possibilities and ideas that it's drowning my brain!

I only read the main post but he said something about having snipers and said don't have them, we've basically got snipers now agreed, maybe rifles or attachments for the gun or a scoped rifle. I wouldn't mind any gun as long as it sticks to the era of the game [late 19th century] and people forget that so don't even mention RPG's maybe cannons instead. Bromosapian, there ain't mortar strikes in the 19th century so scrap the idea but a guy mentioned TNT that you would need a wire, plunger and the TNT to use. Now that would be cool. This game really needs emotes and a spotting ability which would show the position of the player for 5 or so seconds. I think we need to think of ideas for the mechanics of the game, not the guns.

A mounted MG that you could build into fortifications would be good, something in a defensive capacity. The creation of mounted guns would require things like mortars to deal with them.

honestly why are people complaining mgs would be op. any jab an mg can do a couple headshots can do just the same without the need to reposition or even be spotted. stop complaining and give some new ideas a try. maybe if you would accept the fact that not everyone wants to HAVE to snipe and go for headshots all the time in order to not get buttfucked by other players. and if your argument is headshots are hard to do, your are an idiot. 3/4 of my deaths are from headshots. this is simply because of the fact that the rifle has such high recoil, that its so much easier to just aim for the head than to hit the body 3-4 times. imo headshots either need to be nerfed or body shots buffed, then you could complain about full auto guns being op, plus they arent even added yet so what is everyone complaining about?

I would like a machine gun, preferably static (in order to fire, but able to be repositioned) with a low rate of fire.

how can people be this dumb?
on mounted machine guns, everybody says they'll camp intel and stuff.
really? are you retarded? youre seriously going to run straight into the MGs fire line until you get lucky with intel. try this amazing thing called "going around".

I agree with the first comment from Jacob.

The idea of snipers in this game is horrible. As it is, people who can look through the fog of war well enough and have a good hand are ridiculously powerful. Adding a further sight that obscures less of the middle screen would make it way too strong.

If a sniper rifle was added, the current rifle would have to be removed and a medium ranged replacement would be needed. Additionally, long range artillery would be rediculously powerful for already well fortified bases. the bases that are well established would be able to rebuild quickly because of the supports while they barrage smaller bases that could be destroyed quickly with a combination of sniper fire and artillery.

@akimbo: Servers that were as individually moddable as source ones would be really cool.

Definitly Jacob,

I really like this game for what it offers in style and simplicity.
I really agree with all the additions you are mentioning in both this post and the previous one.
I think that the weapon ideas that you mentioned are great and in another forum thread people have already created the graphics for those. I don't know where the Devs want this to go but I really have to say I like this game a lot.

I agree with the light artillery idea and the new block types. It is a lot to add but I really really like those ideas. The thing is it just makes me think of so many possibilities that are related to Minecraft like the crafting and everything else. I guess the game coding should be slightly more open in the later stages of the game because the thing that brought Minecraft so far was really the modding and what people really made out of the simple game.

Handshake bro!

I would just like to be able to hit people with my pickaxe for some melee action. Nothing like the times when you are out of ammo behind enemy lines with only your trusty digging implements and no way to damage anyone unless you somehow manage to ninja collapse a building...

Yup, I agree with your whole post.
Especially the bit about not changing graphics - that would be like someone saying "Minecraft shouldnt be so blocky!"

Also, please add sub-forums and an edit button.

Yes. A night-day cycle would be lovely.

I have to agree with the opening post about things like snipers and ect.

I am unsure in what direction the developer wants to go, but I would indeed suggesting some kind of light artillery weapon.

Also, I wouldn't mind a submachinegun à la MP 18 or a shotgun. The reason for this is that it allows players to use more tactics; while at the same time I believe that a pistol side-arm would be fun too; besides that and light artillery I do not see what would add more to the game.

Some people have suggested things like flamethrowers, snipers, mounted machineguns, even planes and tanks.

For flamethrowers I wouldn't know how they could be added to the game without totally looking out of place, for snipers I agree with the OP, also, as said before; why do we want mounted machineguns? Seriously? There already is a problem with camping(which I hope will be fixed a bit once light artillery get added), why would we want to give a weapon that is perfect for camping? You might be able to dig under the blue intel, the greens with machineguns? It would be a massacre and make it nearly impossible for blue to capture the green intel, while at the same time being harrassed by enemy machinegunners at the top of mountains and inside huge towers and bunkers.

When it comes to planes and tanks, I have no idea how that could be added and still be practical; the maps are too small for planes and the terrain is too rough for tanks.

The reason why I would love to see a shotgun and a submachinegun added is, as I said before, to allow more possible tactics: It allows for long-medium range, short range and close combat. I would love to have a shotgun when assaulting valley bases, while when assaulting a fortress or bunker I would love to have a submachinegun; at the expense of not being able to take out targets at range.

Also, I think it would be nice if you could have two types of artillery: Light artillery and mortars. With mortars added I wouldn't mind rifles not being able to damage buildings, and they have being requested now for quite a while by a lot of people(for obvious camping reasons).

On the other side, I think it would be nice if there was an ability to create stationairy artillery, not as a way to defend bases but more in order to be able to bombard mountain campers.

There have also been talks in game and on the forums about adding more block types and craftable items.

While I am against the whole idea of classes(Last thing we need, as the OP pointed is a tasteless generic FPS copy), I think it may be nice if atleast munition for the artillery could be crafted from in game materials.

This in order to reduce the possible massive spam of artillery. I have been thinking about this further and I wouldn't mind if for example the main tent could be used to supply ammunition and crafted weaponry, also, we could allow the enemy to steal ammunition and weaponry; adding another interesting strategic component to the game.

The idea of craftable weapons is something I like, and if this were required for things like submachineguns, artillery, shells and shotguns it might add more teamwork to the game. You could make these items craftable from materials gained from mining, I wouldn't add too much complexity; but overal I think it would be nice.

Another thing that other people seem to like is the idea of more block types; I have to agree that this also something I would like and might be useful once artillery get added. Just a simple extra block like stone(concrete???) or even steel.

And while it might not have been discussed before, I think allowing server owners to have 4 teams per map and up to 64 players would make the game much more intense(spawning at the corners); if you add to this artillery, more weapons, craftable items and more blocks, combat will be more tense then ever.

Last note, please add interserver ban lists that can be viewed and shared and link the forum accounts to in game acounts with max 1 IP per account and please make sure repeated offenders(griefers and ect.) get permanently banned from the game, this would make the game much more enjoyable for a lot of us.

P.S. If graphics get improved, please do it all at once; Vegetation, new blocks types, wheather, climate types and artillery(I must say I like the dark atmosphere though :P).

This post just basicly summarises what a lot of people have said, only in a less of a "YOU SHOULD ADD THIS AND THIS AND THIS" and more in a "This might increase teamwork/fun".

Well, it is late, so I am going to bed. ^^

i agree with most of Nomad's ideas.
other guns would somewhat ruin the game. but like a pistol? good if they're imbalanced.
other ideas like what alexthecreeper said, windows and ladders would be great.

and people! just live with the fog! i didnt notice it until about a week after ive been playing the game.
i still think something like a friends list would be real useful, if worked out the mishaps. being able to throw 'nades farther would be helpful.
something like weather and day-to-night physics would be pretty cool.

Seismic indicator is something that would have to be very general. You wouldn't want it to give too accurate of a result because that would just destroy the fun of tunneling, which is a big part of what the game is.

So what did you guys think of my seismic indicator idea?

re-balancing the rifle is sumthin i or many ppl who play AoS for AoS, not just a fps wouldn't want him to alter the rifle