The Shotgun is fine as it is. I would like for the fog to be a bit less though so I can see more with the rifle.

Meh, i have been reading through this post (and i know for a fact i am going to be flamed for saying everything i am about to say, because thats how this community seems to work.. o.O) And have found imo that muncher was being the mature one, and was actualy providing proof of the matter, he was also standing up for something that he wanted to stay the same, rather then having a bunch of 12 year old trolls whine about some awesome feature, and then have it be taken away (i know the feeling, considering it happend in TF2 with the new Cow mangler weapons) And what did you guys do? you guys flamed him, and started a massive flame war...

You know what MoonGeek? That's the way I see it too, having just read through all the BS that was this thread. Muncher was the only one that even came close to having a level headed reasonable argument.

You really have to be Arrogant enough to jump to conclusions?

Let this die out.

Like seriously this is sort of pointless no ones proving anything were all looking like total idiots, EVERYONE including me.

Translation:
Passive aggressive admission of defeat

Nooow, to let this forum die out (Thank freaking god)
Edit: If someone posts after this their morons, the argument is over neutrality won both sides have valid info as of the rest,

Word counts in court because people are under oath.
On the internet people can lie so much easier then anywhere else.
Word= nothing on thine internet

You (and only you) continue to call this a flame war, but I have'nt insulted you yet. I actually use proof and videos to back up my point.
All I'm doing is stating that you have no real proof.
I do.

Sorry, that's the facts.
Come back with a video of two people testing it it showing it happening consistently (this means 5/10 times) then I'll say you're right.

Until then, you're wrong.

I got other fourms to watch flame this with your stupidity, Munch, I've got no time for this, THIS IS MY LAST POST. I will take myself out of this for one simple reason,

Munch makes himself look like an ass....

And I won't help him.

Eeeeey below, I'm gonna edit this cause its my last-post

Try to decode this, see how smart you are:
Munch A pice vxool ubz xunpb atkex 0oax toze, bx0 bo kejoke bpuz ub'z umvozzihse zo no dizbe 0oax bume xaututn zomeote esze'z bxeik dubp ukuobuj bputnz sure nx0 te a rekxoh 0ehi ud ataek 0ei sud'k hout kxaj

if you played Star-Fox adventures you'd know what it is

Actually if you've every watched someone in a court room Word does mean something.
Like anything else in this world it's possible you can't change that with you viedos or so called "proof", my point has been made, i will make it smaller for your so called flamewar:

"It's possible like EVERYTHING in this world people said we couldn't fly, WE DID IT ANYWAY. It's exactly like that with this...."

edit addon: read my post below the dood who said he was gonna be flamed. before you flame me. Jackarse I said we'll never know inless he has fraps

You still have yet to provide any solid evidence.

Right now you're saying "IT TOTALLY HAPPENED!!! FOR REAL!"
I want a video showing that percent.
Your word is NOT proof. Stop jsut saying it happened and giving me made up percents and give me so real proof.

I have a video showing you that with the spread it's not possible to snipe at the fog line with the shotgun.
You have nothing, other then your word, which is just bout worth nothing.
Get some real proof, or don't bother commenting.

Muncher, I was not "Bitchin" I was just stating the fact that I take Frosty's side of this so called "Argument" (Should be called a bitch-fight how you sound muncher) and this anonomly of the shotgun sniping, I took a Percent how often it does it, the rate is 12% left of the shotgun clip ussaly gets you with a sniped luck shot of the spread directly in the area of your head.

There's the est.

Flame all ya want.
It's still possible like anything else in this world.

I have yet to see unedited video proof of a shotgun sniping.

It's never happened to me, and I have never, ever managed to do it, and I have tried.

Since, the opposing side can not provide any REAL proof other then personal accounts with no evidence, I must say I win.
Until you can get some video proof of it happening on a regular basis, then you really have no point at all. All you have managed to do is insult me, then tell me to STFU, when I provided video proof.

also
@[HK] CaptainOAP
Shooting at blocks is a perfectly accurate way to test the spread of the shot.
With shotgun pellets doing 20 damage each, and it takes 3 pellets to destroy a block, that means unless a block is destroyed and 2 other pellets hit very close to the destroyed block, the shot would not be a kill.
The only time such a thing happened is on the last, and second to last shot, and arguably the third.
Headshots with one pellet of the shotgun are not instakills, they just do more damage.
I believe it takes 2 pellets to the head and 1 to any other part to cause killing damage, which, would also be very rare, as shown by the video.

So, unless further evidence is presented, I would say I win, the shotgun is balanced, quit your bitchin'.

I'm not gonna flame you, Just frosty was absloutly right, You CAN get oneshot snipe-killed by a shotgun, So basically frost was being the Correct, Munch, was just trolling for Lawlz and to make himself more self-confident
Add-on with edit: AS of the fact trying to prove frost wrong very indoublty and without valid terms of Fraps on frost's side you'll never know.

Meh, i have been reading through this post (and i know for a fact i am going to be flamed for saying everything i am about to say, because thats how this community seems to work.. o.O) And have found imo that muncher was being the mature one, and was actualy providing proof of the matter, he was also standing up for something that he wanted to stay the same, rather then having a bunch of 12 year old trolls whine about some awesome feature, and then have it be taken away (i know the feeling, considering it happend in TF2 with the new Cow mangler weapons) And what did you guys do? you guys flamed him, and started a massive flame war... Please help to make this community (and this game) NOT turn into cod! i can already see stuff in a lot of posts that suggests that it is happening....
LET THE FLAME COMMENCE! (yes i am horrible at grammar, have fun correcting me on every little thing!)

above is true as well I have a WWI shotgun passed down from my family and the shells are pinpoint accuracy where I point down the sights

Lesson to you folks on shotguns.
Buckshot/Birdshot = Firing (Usually) lead pellets at a target. Unlike what most of you think, it's pretty damn accurate compared to the stereo type.

Slugs = Either very few (rare) to a single large piece o lead. If you're good, it is fairly accurate compared to a rifle or an SMG.

Flechette = Firing small flechettes instead of pellets. Much worse than getting hit with buckshot.

Dragon's Breathe = Flamethrower rounds. Incendiary rounds used for no purpose other than parties and entertainment.

Breaching Slugs = One hard and big slug made for breaking locks.

Bolo = Shell fitted with 2 pieces of shot with a nice steel wire in the middle.

Rubber Pellets = Rubber Rounds, not much to it.

Frag-12 = It fires a grenade...

Gas = Shoots gas...
and more!

Well it seems I may be a Doody, but, I don't care no troll-line bothers me.

Anyway, I agree with frost,

1.oh FUCK yes
2.Mhhhm
3DEFFANTLY

Etc: Sleep over it, don't troll over it.

lets just summarise this.
what we have learned:

1.Shotgun sniping is possible although it is slightly rare.
2.How Shotguns are meant to be made.
3.How to act like a dick in some posts.

Now, untill the next review of 0.59, lets not bump this and lets leave it to sleep.
I hope you abide by my humble request.
*waits to edit post in 3 days time*

You can't snipe with the shotgun.

(Doodyhead line, anybody posting below it is a dummy and should be dealt with as such.)

----

I think I've never been 1 shotted from VERY far with shotgun, but with 2 shots it happens quite a lot compared to the stereotypical game shotguns out there.

This topic makes me lol.

Guy 1: Shotgun can snipe!

Guy 2: No it cant! you lie!

Guy 1: we need to fix long range damage of shotgun

Guy 2: SHOTGUN IS FINE! DON'T CHANGE IT! ....i'm secretly using it to snipe...

(because really, if the shotguns damage at long range is crap as is, does it really matter if they change it so the damage at long range is crap? its already there according do you, so why do you care if its changed?)

It's possible and it's happened to me so many times. It's not exactly easy and I don't see it happen much anymore, partly because everyone I see with the shotgun is a griefer. So Muncher. Stfu. I haven't see the video but apparently you were shooting blocks. The shotgun does less damage to blocks then it does to players. Unless you're at point blank range at which point it'll do about the same (one shot). On blocks, you cannot get headshots. On players, you can. Retard.

Haha Frosty totally won this, I've been shotgun sniped about hmm 12 times in an hour today, its possible.

"Implying that video was mine."
"My proof:
My video"

Agreed =]

Well. The shotgun just needs more spread.

Tyler your getting out of point we are talking about e balance of the shotgun, not about it.
In my take on the shotgun, you could be incredibly lucky that you get the shotgun spread on someone's face or the glitch on Pyspades that mix up the weapons. Period.

I think you guys really played to much COD, here my take:
Shotguns have DIFFERENT types of Rounds, the most popularized is the

Buckshot and Birdshot, when fired, they release a ass-load of individual pellets that spread over distance.

The ones that are (Probably) used now are called a "slug"
They turn the shotgun into a crude rifle, Slugs are usually fairly accurate compared to a Buckshot, they still do a massive amount of damage due to their caliber (usually 50.+)

If you watch FPSRussia, he basically stuck a arrow into his shotgun and made a accurate headshot.

Here are some other types:
Dragon's Breath (Inflammatory) (for all your COD nerds)
Door Breaching Shot
Sabots (The bullet gets shot on and the metal jacket falls away over a set distance, and the pellets disperse)
Flechette (tiny arrows instead of pellets)
Gas Rounds (Combat shotguns are sometimes used to disperse Chemicals)
Beans (yes, used in Crowd control as a non lethal weapon, the police shoots beans at rioters)

To put in my two cents to this problem, I've probably been sniped with the shotgun once or twice since I started playing on 0.58. I probably wouldn't notice, the Rifle is still THE weapon for long-range sniping.

Also, please stop with the insults. You won't get to Ben with your notion for nerfing if you keep that up.

Shrooms, what server?