what beret said.....im ready to slit the wrists of the next person to comment on how good the SEMI(not rifle) is and then stand there watching as they bleed to death
...i almost never get that annoyed

What shall we do to balance the rifle? Let's ask the community... again:

"Every gun has their ups and faults, but I say the rifle is fine as it is."

"Don't nerf the Rifle, we already did that. Buff the other 2 weapons instead."

"Something should be done, I agree with that. But making all of the weapons shit? Why the fuck would you want that? What's wrong with upgrading the SMG and shotgun? I'm really not seeing the point of mindless nerfing, when we could just make the two afore-mentioned shitty guns quite a bit less shitty."

"Anyway, I agree that it isn't the rifle that needs a nerf, but other weapons need buffs.
The SMG is too unstable to use very easily. Crouching helps, I supposed, but you aren't meant to camp in one spot with a fully automatic weapon in a game like this.
The shotgun should also be somewhat longer range."

"how can you say the rifle is unbalanced? If anything, the other weapons are underpwered, its not the rifles fault it's colleagues are pointless. If you were going to change the game, leave the rifle as is, but beef up te other weapons."

"If anything, make the rifle pin-point accurate again, then increase the effectiveness of the SMG/shotgun."

"Lay off the rifle OP, focus on improving OTHER weapons so that there as good as the rifle."

"just make the SMG and Shotgun better at what they do."

"I know that rifle is pretty much a death machine compared to the other weapons. But in any case rifle shouldn't be nerfed.
-Instead buff SMG and shotgun. So easy."

"buff the SMG by reducing recoil and giving it a damage increase (25%-40% increase), and making the shotgun fire an extra 3 pellets (total of 9) should improve the balance alot, IMO."

"Seems like buffing all the other weapons is good"

"I say make them all overpowered, if they are all overpowered, they are all balanced=none of them overpowered."

"Someone said this already, but instead of making the rifle worse (which older fans of the game will dislike), make the SMG and the shotty better.
Yes, the rifle is better than the other two weapons, but that doesn't mean that its overpowered and that it needs to be downgraded. It means that the other weapons need to be improved so that it can stand a chance with the rifle. The rifle was downgraded once already with the rifle cone, and look how poorly the community responded to that.
If you improve the SMG and the shotgun, we get to have our good rifle, and we also get a good SMG and shotty, as opposed to a bad rifle, smg, and shotty. Everyone wins"

"This thread has been made countless times."

"as many people said, balance can be achieved by making the SMG (and the shotgun, if you really think so) better, to be on par with the rifle. Much better to have three good guns in the game than three equally mediocre guns."

"To all of you doody heads arguing that the rifle is fair: no. I couldn't hit shit during 0.54, so buffing the other weapons might be the way to go."

"Rock, paper, scissors.
When someone doesn't like what they can do, they chuck in dynamite. But then someone says "scissors cut the fuse" and it's balanced again.
My point is we should stop whineing about nerfing the rifle and focus on strengthening the other weapons."

"Just buff the SMG and Shotgun if they're THAT underpowered. Gimping/nerfing gets old after a while, and the Rifle certainly doesn't need it."

"i think the rifle is just fine, i do think the smg needs more power and a litlle less recoil. The shotgun isnt really effective in a open world map, you get picked off before the enemy is in range."

"Improve the other weapons! The answer isn't always nerfing, and like Crisis said when the rifle got nerfed it didn't work. So we need to improve the other weapons."

"If all three weapons were made equally effective without bringing the rifle down, then we'd have a good balance without all the weapons... you know... sucking."

"don't ruin the rifle. seems like you got sniped alot and then got pissed and went into the forums to complain. rifle is fine leave it alone just improve shotgun and smg. shotgun needs to shoot faster and smg needs to be able to kill faster"

"Don't nerf the Rifle (too much) as we've already tried that. Just make the other two weapons more devastating."

So can we stop flogging this dead horse and all go home now?

the shotgun is good, it has range and power but the low ammo, it up side is its scatter make it easyer to score a hit.

the smg lacks the accuracy to kill at mid range(30+ blocks) or longer with speed,yes you can fire single rounds and hit at long range but it takes to long than the rifle.

the rifle is overpowerd only in that A) most maps lack the need to use other guns
B) it has 100% accuracy from the hip this and the fact it can one shot kill make it the best all round gun.

That is about 1 block off each side, if you remove a block on each side the eyes will be on the sides of the head, and if you move them in its a cyclops, if you just remover from the top it will look too short and if you just remove from the sides it will be to skinny, removing from the back and front would make it look stupid as well.

Jesus Luna, we meant smaller not puny.

My conviction still stands. Don't nerf the Rifle (too much) as we've already tried that. Just make the other two weapons more devastating.

^ No, you don't want smaller heads...

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=l5z78qyxwqywcqs&thumb=4

Seems like buffing all the other weapons is good but how far will we go with it? And how the rifle would compare afterwards. Also, I'm in favor of shrinking the heads a bit, but I guess that's something for another topic.

It's not the rifle. If we moved faster/sprint and the heads were smaller it would fix it.

^Agree.
Like i repeat again and again and again; It's like Newfags show up in AoS just so that they can get something changed.

You see? This is the exact same counter argument that was used by those of us who were against the addition of a shotgun in the first place. We said that the shotgun would be damn-near useless and look at what everyone's saying now; we were right.

Lower the rifle's effectiveness to balance it off with a weapon that shouldn't have been added in the first place (at least, not as a primary weapon; the shotgun would have worked wonders as a secondary weapon)? No, increase the newly added weapon's effectiveness to balance it out with the rifle.

In regards to the SMG, there's been lots of complaining as well, and Ben has heard it all. It's almost guaranteed that there will be a buff in the future. The rifle was always meant to be the primary weapon of the game, its superiority is a testament to that. Then again, the rifle's been here since the beginning, so shitting it up to accommodate new players who want to continuously whine about it is most likely not in Ben's best interest.

How about we just make rifles body shots do 40 damage (so that freaking fall damage wouldn't be a big deal), then reduce clip size by 2 (not a lot) and increase recoil (especially when moving/using hip fire). And lower RoF just a little (again not much).

For the shotgun, 2-3 more pellets.

For smg, increase damage a bit all over he field and reduce the recoil just a little bit when you're moving.

?

The problem isn't that the shotgun and SMG are lame, it's that they aren't good for fighting as you make your way across the map to the enemy base or wherever. Once you get there, shotty and SMG are perfectly fine weapons, but it's a challenge to defend yourself effectively on the way there.

If you could carry two weapons at once, you'd have the rifle out 70 % of the time, but that other 30% you could use the shotgun or the SMG in situations where they're more effective.

Something should be done, I agree with that. But making all of the weapons shit? Why the fuck would you want that? What's wrong with upgrading the SMG and shotgun? I'm really not seeing the point of mindless nerfing, when we could just make the two afore-mentioned shitty guns quite a bit less shitty.

^FAG SATALITE HAS DETECTED TWO NEWFAGS IN THE VICINITY OF THE THREAD.
NAMES:
MOLEMAN
DEUCE8PWNS

id·i·o·cy
   [id-ee-uh-see]
noun, plural -cies.
1.
utterly senseless or foolish behavior; a stupid or foolish act, statement, etc.

I'm an economics major. I think in terms of consequences for actions.

So as in my "Rifle is unbalanced" thread, I recommend a large kickback for the rifle if not crouched or scoped, a decrease in the amount of ammo to 4-5 shots per clip, and a decrease in bodyshot damage from 49 to 35-40. Suddenly, the rifle becomes a sniper's weapon rather than a semi-automatic close-mid-long-range killing machine.

I agree, mostly. The whole "less accuracy in general" statement is a little crazy, however - it should only affect you while you are in movement and firing from the hip.

The shotgun and SMG need to be improved in the midst of the slight rifle nerf - that is, more pellets shot from the shotgun, along with an increased fire rate to increase effectiveness in general. The SMG needs either a lower fire rate or a ton less recoil. As of now:

Rifle
■ Above average fire rate
■ Hardly any recoil
■ HUGE damage
■ Pinpoint accuracy even while in movement
■ Shots will hit the target if the player can aim

SMG
■ Really fast fire rate
■ HUGE recoil
■ Below average damage
■ Sub-par accuracy; couldn't hit the backside of a barn while moving
■ Shots hit the target most of the time, depending on range

Shotgun
■ SLOW fire rate
■ HUGE recoil
■ Sub-par damage; takes 3-4 hits to kill at 10+ blocks
■ Average accuracy for a shotgun
■ Shots almost NEVER hit the target, and if it does, it NEVER kills in one hit unless the two players are practically right next to each other - that is, so close that they could reach out and touch each other with their hands.

If you don't see any issues with this, then you obviously are suffering from massive bigotry and should go see a counselor immediately. The rifle outdoes all of the weapons, even at their own designated ranges - something should be done about this.

crazy, if you want arguments for/against destroying the rifle, search the forums. This thread has been made countless times.

^It's not that I think it stupid it's just there already threads about this, no need to make more.

See it's assholes like frosty that don't get anything done. Get the fuck out if you don't have ideas and arguments to contribute.

<img src= "http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/24/Mr_T_orly.jpg" border="0" alt="O RLY?" />

Its a semi-automatic, not a bolt action or something like that, a semi-automatic with 5 rounds would be pointless.

^FAG SATALITE HAS DETECTED TWO NEWFAGS IN THE VICINITY OF THE THREAD.
NAMES:
MOLEMAN
DEUCE8PWNS

I'm an economics major. I think in terms of consequences for actions.

Lowering the ammo for the Rifle will encourage people to be more accurate with their shots in order to conserve ammo, and take longer to aim before shooting.

Lowering the rate of fire will not change anything except increasing survivability due to the down time between shots.

Lowering the rifle's accuracy will make people miss shots at long range more often and lower the effective range of the rifle, encouraging people to move closer to their opponents.

Making the rifle have a large kickback when standing and/or not scoped lowers its effectiveness at close range and encourages a 'sniper' mentality of camping in one place, shooting a few people, then moving to another place, rather than moving and shooting.

Changing rifle bodyshot damage from 49 to 40 would not affect rifle players much at all. Perhaps fewer kills would be gotten but the gameplay style of riflemen would not change.

So as in my "Rifle is unbalanced" thread, I recommend a large kickback for the rifle if not crouched or scoped, a decrease in the amount of ammo to 4-5 shots per clip, and a decrease in bodyshot damage from 49 to 35-40. Suddenly, the rifle becomes a sniper's weapon rather than a semi-automatic close-mid-long-range killing machine.

i think things are actually alright, i was playing with the SMG the other day and I was getting a lot of points with it, just rushing in and killing a few people and then stealing the intel. maybe just buff the shotgun a little bit, but maybe lower the accuracy a tiny bit for the rifle, only so it is possible to miss if you're doing something like jump shooting or sprinting.

Luna, this game isn't really realistic. If all weapons had 1 headshot kills it would be unbalanced thanks to the smg and random shotgun headshots. This thread is really just figuring out how to make things balanced, although it's mostly focused on the rifle. And if you were to make such drastic changes, it would ruin the whole point of having different weapons. Completely.

Its a chunk of metal punching through you skull, tearing through your brain, and punching through the other side of your skull, of course its going to kill you.
just make all guns have 1 shot kills to the head, make the smg an assault rifle, and make the shotgun a musket, problem solved.

A close enough range is something that's a bit more challenging to figure out, and I can't say because I don't really know how range is measured in this game.

By lowering the shotgun rate of fire? That doesn't really make sense or seem relevant. The smg doesn't really need a damage buff because the only thing preventing you from getting a kill with it is the recoil, which shouldn't be lowered too much. Seeing as how the rifle is a ranged weapon and not a close range weapon I'll say it again. When you get to a CLOSE enough range have rifle headshots disabled.
Which would be the "a CLOSE enough range"?

Also he meant to lower rifles RoF to shotguns level.

By lowering the shotgun rate of fire? That doesn't really make sense or seem relevant. The smg doesn't really need a damage buff because the only thing preventing you from getting a kill with it is the recoil, which shouldn't be lowered too much. Seeing as how the rifle is a ranged weapon and not a close range weapon I'll say it again. When you get to a CLOSE enough range have rifle headshots disabled.

We can fix the overpowered at close ranges by lowering the rate of fire (shotgun RoF?) and halving the clip size.
We can also buff the SMG by reducing recoil and giving it a damage increase (25%-40% increase), and making the shotgun fire an extra 3 pellets (total of 9) should improve the balance alot, IMO.
The problem with the last update was that the rifle fired inaccurately EVERY SHOT.

The day that beta 0.59 was released.....Players: AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!I CAN'T SNIPE GOOD ENOUGHT TO KILL THE ENEMY!!WE WANT THE OLD RIFLE BACK!!!!

Ben: You all said,You want me to nerf the rifle!and that's what i did.what is wrong with you?!?!?!?!?!?!

The day that Beta 0.60 was released......Players: BEN!WE WANT YOU TO NERF THE RIFLE PLEASE?!?!?!?!??!?!!?!?!??!

Ben: I just nerfed the rifle at the last update and you didn't liked it!

Yes,That will happen.I just know it.

JUST FUCKING DEAL WITH IT!DON'T BITCH AROUND!WE ALL WANTED THE RIFLE BACK AND THAT IS THAT.