now to address what we are restricted to in terms of play testing or simulating any item imagine what would be good for the game after that, for the most part we are restricted to pencil to paper calculation and simulation instead of hands on testing capability.

this is mostly only due to the current game build not really supporting real mods. a mod in this game is a graphic change witch modifies the game on a purely aesthetic level.

its understandable that he dose not want to release and open the game engine entirely to the community as it runs the risk of some one stealing the game or something and opens up the game more so to hackers.

so in terms of what we can do: not a whole lot.

Ye Gods. Not THIS again. - -'

Very true, slenderman.

yeah i know what you mean.

I am still balancing multiplayer weapons for a mod i made in a different game

it all comes down to game and understanding of in game mechanics and audience

Rob lox for example has a incredibly vanilla set of base mechanics witch allows individuals the ability to make there own mechanics if they so desire
and it surprisingly has a huge open audience consisting of everyone

block land is somewhat less open ended but it has possibly one of the coolest world mechanics ever used and also has a huge audience due to mod ability

mine craft is really open ended with a huge mod base and interesting crafting mechanics that are used in quite a bit and like all above as an audience from little kids to -i kid you not- my 63 year old grandfather who complains that i don't play minecraft with him enough.

I don't even know how he figured out how to play anything other then solitaire on his computed let alone minecraft!

any way from what i can peace together the group of people that play this game are mostly teen ages with impossibly a few people in there 20's and maybe just maybe some in there early 30's its in game mechanics are fairly vanilla but as this game is a WiP and is hasn't even reached 1.0 yet that's to be expected.

All we can do at thsi poitn is give "Ben" ideas and see what happens.

@YourMom: That's also a great idea. I've always thought something similar when considering weapon packs for this other game I play, called Blockland. Imagine it as internet legos (and not Roblox). It's very fun.

Anyway, I always thought that the weapons in these add-on packs I devised would have to be 100% balanced (or as close to 100% as I could get them), because I knew people would use them for fort wars (basically you host a map, set some rules, clients build forts, team up, and wage war all across the server w/ other groups of players) and for enclosed, competitive deathmatches. I'd take ideas from Tier+Tactical, the most popular weapon pack on that game today, but I'd tweak them. Like I didn't want a pistol that killed someone once your clip was empty. If I wanted to go around like a spec ops soldier with a pistol for close range and a crossbow for med/long range, I'd make the damage for all the weapons very high. For all of em, you know? So I could kill you with one well-aimed pistol headshot or a short burst to the chest from my assault rifle. If all the guns have very high, "realistic" damage, but things like accuracy, ammo cap, and rate of fire are varied a lot, then I believe that those guns would be fairly balanced. It all depends on the guns themselves, of course.

@Galaxion - It was only a mere joke. Love ya too :D

Instead of the rifle being nerfed, the SMG and Shotgun should get upped.

@slenderman: Yeah, that opens my eyes a bit. Good thoughts, bro.

"I'd rather an M1 Garand (I know that's not what it is but it might as well be) than a bolt-action rifle."

well semantically its more like a m1 carbine or a m14 or a gewehr 43 then a grand.

yep. i snagged that from you. so all and all there seems to be the:

RIFLES ARE OP faction

and the EVERY OTHER WEAPON IS UNDERPOWERED faction and

then you have the average SHUT YO MOUTH new fag you have been playing since .27 like me so obviously your opinion dose not count!*frothing at the mouth insane*

personally my take on the three is

rifles being over powered is purely objective they are overpowered because the other two guns have had too little time put into them if everyone stoped complaining about the rifle maybe Ben would be able to actually do what he wants with his game and stop worrying about appeasing one group only to piss off another.

every other gun is underpowered? well only at this build maybe there is a idea behind them that has not yet been put into play like shotgun will be able to shoot through body armor that will be in 1.23 but has been put into the game early to add some spice to the game short term we have no idea what the next update may feature and maybe in that update or another the other two guns will have there full value seen.

and for that last group your trolls who really need to smarten the heck up new players are the next audience and will usually have ideas that better the game if you had your way there would only be the semi and the game would get boring fast and die.

@YourMom: "but I discriminate against people named Galaxion." Love you too, buddy <3

I'm just voicing my opinion here, just like everyone else. I gotta say, if ANYTHING will be nerfed on the rifle, I think that the fire rate should be slowed at the absolute least.

I saw another thread with a whole different audience. Most of them thought the same as the guy who wrote the OP: that the rifle should be nerfed a bit. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Are you suggesting different solutions, or suggesting that all three of these should be applied?

If it's the latter, this is the most hilarious thread I've ever read.

I'd rather an M1 Garand (I know that's not what it is but it might as well be) than a bolt-action rifle.

I like many opinions on the rifle, but I discriminate against people named Galaxion. Sorry.

P.S. 1st post 2nd page

EDIT: ^ I was a bit too late.

yeah the rifle is fine as is leave it.

What Genius97 said. SMGs kill forts. Also, if the rifle gets nerfed again in any way I'm boycotting the next update.

I'll figure out how to host a .58 server on my computer and just play with my friends!

umm excuse me? I merely implied that a game should be fun so why am is suddenly insulating the game?

Ah lol....... You see you've only been playing for TWO weeks. You cant start judging the game. The shotgun has been out for about a month or 3 weeks. Some people like me haven't exactly "mastered" it. Give the game more time.

I have been playing for 2 weeks smg not my favourite but I don't hate it I use it when I take down enemy defences

Ok now here's the thing.

When a big COD player has been playing for over 3 months, is really good, and has achieved some of the best guns should be very good.

If a n00b at COD started playing that exact game on lvl 1 with the stuff it gives you who should be greater?!

The guy with the Galil, or the guy with MP-K5?!

ZEKE I AM TALKING TO YOU

challenges shouldn't be in form of a game (unless you about to win a huge jackpot) they should be all around you.

P.S. just join the army then if you're wanting a real challenge

Slenderman and Genius are the reason why this game doesn't tend to be fun. I ask you guys stop hating on a wonderful creation and use what this game has. I remember when there was only a rifle. There was no hate that I saw. Then the smg came. I was at first a hater. I gave it a week and it then became my fav gun. If you guys took the time and did the same you would probably start noticing.

100 bucks where you are is NOTHING! You dont deserve money for hating on Ben's greatest things.

whats 100$ in £ (pounds)

Some one pay genius 100$ for voiceing what i have been thinking for the last 5 hours.

You see the game is fun, but you dont want it to be something that's too easy. You want a challenge. Ive been playing this game for over 3 months. I dont want some1 who started today be able to play as good. It should be a challenge. If you dont have fun so what?!

!!!!!!?????!!!!????

WHAT IS THE POINT OF GAMES???

TO HAVE FUN!

IT'S NOT ABOUT EXPERIENCE

IT'S NOT ABOUT WHO WINS OR LOSES

IT'S NOT ABOUT KILL STREAKS

IT'S NOT ABOUT IF YOU CAN USE A SMG OR SHOTGUN

IT'S ABOUT IF YOU HAD FUN

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF GAMES

Yeah sometimes I think Ben is just trying to make it easier so any1 could enjoy and play this game. If they cant use the smg and shotgun right why dont they just use semi?! It's there for a reason!!!

It SHOULD be challenging to kill someone with any weapon, otherwise the game would become less interesting (AHEM COD ONE-HIT KILLING, INSTANT-HIT GUNS).

And you know, another feature that could possibly balance all the guns out even more is this: bullets actually take time to hit your target and have a SUPER slight gravity modifier. Then it'd take more skill to snipe people. Amirite? I'll come back later to see ifiamrite because I SRSLY have to start homework. Cya in a bit, AoS community.

I am so annoyed Ben's doing that. If he does that it's gonna be like the Famas in cod. It SHOULD be challenging to kill some1 with an smg.

why doesn't he just make a small map and then the shotgun comes in handy
or make a place which has lots of small spaces like a maze then the shotgun will come in handy because if you are against someone with a rifle and then they come around the corner you could kill them with the shotgun (because it has spread fire I think,) which would mean that you would be more likely to kill them before they could line up for a head shot and kill you.

Yeha I see what you're saying Priok.

@DeathEnhanced: He is? Frak. Maybe like a teensy-weensy, itty-bitty lil' buff, but nothing major. And then that would mean that the shotgun would have to be buffed to keep up with its counterparts... then if they're all buffed... they're all balanced? It's possible.

Then again, we all have to keep in mind that balancing an online competitive shooter is one of the hardest possible things for a game developer to do. I read a very interesting article on such a subject a while ago... Wonder if I can find it again.

EDIT: Ahh, here it is: http://forums.link-dead.net/index.php?topic=354.0
A great read, if you've got the time you should read through all of it. But if you're busy fragging noobs on some FPS, not doing algebra 2 homework, and jumping from AoS forum post to forum post, then you should probably pass this up for later (all examples apply to ME, btw. so bye I'm gonna actually crunch these numbers for mr. Fabing now).

ben said hes buffing the smg in the next update; i agree, i think it needs a lil buff.