Soap i made a thead Its called Soap and Titan talk lol

Submachineguns may have their limited use in clearing buildings, since they can be manouvered easier than carbine rifles, but the cartridges and short barrels used to achieve this manouverability greatly limit the effective range to around 50 to 100 meters. A longer barrel gets you more range up to a certain lenght with a given cartridge type and load. In an outdoor situation, that sort of maximum effective range is next to useless.

And yeah, I guess we agree about ingame balance.

Yeah I know what you mean, but there are many instances where there are firefights, and SMGs should at LEAST be able to have some effectiveness in those kinds of situations, you know? Like, I know the real life stuff isn't like how it is in COD games, but there's still a such thing as needing to get up close and personal as well as having a medium-ranged firefight.

But yeah, then I guess we're in agreement about what I said about the Semi and th eSMG, no? :D

Soap, I'm not expressing an opinion about in-game weapon balance and I know I'm off-topic here, but you do realize that any modern assault rifle is perfectly effective out to 400 yards? Modern combat between reasonably trained militaries does not happen up close. I recommend you visit Liveleak to check out some real combat footage from the middle-east. I cant say from my own expirience, since I hope I'll never even see combat myself, but I know what I've been taught.

On in-game stuff, yes, if you compare AoS weapons to real-world military firearms, the semi is horrible. And I mean that in the slow rate of fire and small magazine way. But making it so would greatly unbalance the game, hence it's limited capabilites leave it to the role of a DMR. As for what AoS engagement ranges go, and I'm really going out for a stretch here with comparing them to real firearms, the Semi is practically a sniper, able to engage at all visible distances. The v0.60 SMG follows suit quite closely, and in that regard, you're right about it being somewhat comparable to a standard issue military weapon. You can easily use it up to the fog-line as of the new version, but it's limited power still leaves it second to the rifles at far, which is entirely how it should be.

@Mikuli I'm not talking about that kind of warfare dude, I'm talking about modern day fire fights and stuff. :-\ And the Semi isn't even really a semi-automatic rifle, it's more like a fast-firing sniper rifle. -.-' The SMG is as close as it gets to the average weapon of a regular, modern day soldier when you think about it. :?

No, I'm not Trolling, that's Dany0. -__________-' I'm simply stating my opinion and justifying it because I feel strongly about it. Do you know how much I get my butt kicked by people with Semis who don't actually have the skill to win in a real, up-close fight? :,( It's not about what makes sense, it's about finding some form of equality between these weapons so that one isn't better than another, thus making the possiblity of winning in a gunfight with an opponent somewhat ahcievable by any amateur AoS player.

yeah, it was pretty easy, it just had its own rhythm, sort of. the semi was easily better/easier to use, though. I do not think anybody but it seems to be more balanced, because there is really no way to balance the semi without either nerfing it, or buffing the other weapons. they could also add more weapons, probably, but that isn't as easy as a few weapons being fixed.

Yes.

Lol! The shotgun is the same, as .58! It seems as if they smg has insane accuracy though. I even heard it's 2 headshots and a death......Dont you find that bad?! I thought it was easy before with 3 headshots!

"^You haven't played the pre-release have you? Here is how it is Semi=Almost Fog Smg=Out of Map Shotgun=Same "
No, I haven't, that's why I said "hopefully". I don't know what it is like.

but I don't see how what you're saying makes any sense, unless you messed up with the wording, because I really doubt the shotgun is better than the semi at fog distance. is there a video clip, somewhere ? I don't know if I want to download it, I don't want to mess with anything

^So you believe more recoil and less damage is a good thing?

Not sure if Soap is trolling, or just delusional. Do you have even the slightest idea of how modern combat happens? People dont jump around with their guns blazing on full automatic with the engagement ranges being around 50 yards. Learn what automatic fire is for. Learn what the engagement distances in modern combat are. Learn what kind of ranges a modern assault rifle is used in. Learn how many troops in WWII were issued "SMG"'s, and how many were issued semiautomatic or bolt-action rifles. Watch more history documents.

End of the rant.

^You haven't played the pre-release have you? Here is how it is Semi=Almost Fog Smg=Out of Map Shotgun=Same

I think that they should probably keep it sort of inaccurate, and hopefully the SMG is not too accurate, so it is still balanced. maybe if there is some similar weapon to the rifle, they can switch it back, or make it bolt action, then have the semi be a little bit less accurate than it is now

Ummm... How? ^

All the shotty needs is a pistol instead of nades. So a pistol or nades option for the shotty. Much easier.

^That :D

The SMG needs to be used more, by both Green and Blue. >:( That way it will seem more like legit warfare, like you see in most FPSs. =w=

It's called balance. You seem want everything unbalanced.
Psssh, making it even easier to kill with the rifle. Insanity.

The SMG is a good weapon now, not underpowered as before, nor overpowered. Just right. Good range, decent damage. It's a jack of all trades now.
Excels at mid range combat, but still falls prey to snipers at long range and shotguns at short range.

It's perfect.

Well yeah, but I mean, in my opinion, we should have an automatic weapon that can work for ANY map. :) That's how it works IRL; you don't see 80% of the troops in war documentaries and military bases carrying SNIPER RIFLES... -.-'

^Thats why the smg doesn't work for all maps -_- I cant stand those noobs....

I really just can't stand it when people camp w/ a Semi and just snipe everybody... -______-' And accuracy is more determined by the sight you have for the most part. :? Like, my Semi sight is made for pinpoint sniping to get a headshot every time as long as the other person doesn't see me (that person can't have a Semi either, or else they just do that quickscope thing I hate >_<'). Basically, it's like a legit sniper rifle. :D But I mean, most people just make sights so that they can sweep between people and headshot them so quickly that I'm almost convinced that they play WAY too much. :( I was just on Goon Haven and this one guy wouldn't stop camping out in a huge Blue fort and sniping everyone. Eventually I just climbed up there and pickaxed his face brutally. He deserved it. XD

Another thing...
Has anyone noticed that you can't see the bullet that kills you? (I can't see the tracer racing towards my head), I would like it that we can see a bullet coming at us (yes unrealistic) so that we could dodge it.
But like what tek said, this isn't the matrix, unfortunatly :/.

I think everything is fine. Because it takes multiple hits to kill, fog kills should be balanced out by the fact that any smart person would duck the second they saw tracers heading for them.

The rifle is fine right now, its a semi Automatic, which were ment mainly for body shots, not headshots that sniper rifles are ment for.

Yes, but we were in the fog.....I think it was Ketchup who was getting the intel once. I was just fooling around and got him just seeing movement....It isn't good and needs to be improved.

The rifle isn't as good as before though. It used to be MEGA easy to kill with. It doesn't need to get changed though.

Pretty sure the rifle has pinpoint accuracy. After you fire a few rounds that's when you notice the cone. Pace yourself and you'll stay at 100% accuracy.

The SMG is fine now. Accuracy is great and recoil is managable. You still need to get an unrealistic amount of bullets on your enemy to kill them (unless you get a headshot) which balances out the reduced recoil.
It still loses to the rifle at long range and the shotgun and super close range.

The video shows the accuracy is not as good at anything past mid-range (what it's intended for); you can see the bullets flying off to the side. At 5:40ish you can see how many bullets missed his target at mid range. While crouching. As I said, the SMG is fine.

Shotgun needs more pellets though. 6 is just not enough.

^IKR! If you used it right it seemed as if there was no recoil at all! Coming back from the update it seems my smg streak range from 5-11 :D (Without airstrikes)

I hope he tunes it down atleast 10 blocks. In the vid I couldn't even see him, just his name, yet still was able to get him in his area.....

Yea, dont you hate that?! I always get 2-3 people from the squad and usually die from the last );

Keep Semi same

Shotgun Idc

Smg 10-15 blocks less

yea, its ridiculous. I always saw the smg as a pro/support weapon. You (should be) covering people with the semi and killing the enemy snipers, the shotgunners should be near their base, while SMG is close to the shotties, surpressing and killing people close enough. Now its like a LMG (think RPD in CoD4) which ruins it. I liked the smg even as it was, almost a try-hard weapon, since you had to be good with it to be good in game and get kills.

It really should have just got a ~50% reduced recoil or something, the spread on it was fine with me.

Edit: Reducingthe damage would also ruin it, since it already can run out of ammo after killed 2-3 people that are near each other.

Skip to 5:20 in the video. It kinda shows an idea about what I'm talking about.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj8Iss2BK6k

You have to agree, isn't that a bit too overpowering?!

LOL sorry I posted this...this is sooo random I meant to post on MLG forum but I may have clicked wrong thing...

It is too good to be in the game. It was good before if you knew how to use it. I thought if he were going to buff it an extra 10 blocks would be a spot to kill from...You know those semi shots that take 5 in the fog?? You can get those no prob in the update.

I guess that your right, tough I haven't tested the new SMG yet so I cant be 100% sure. Anyway I think that all of those "weapon upgrades" kinda under-grade the shotgun cause half the times I shot with it even from a distance of about 10 blocks I had to hit twice to kill someone, and it would be even harder to efficiently use it when the SMG gets so awesome because it can be used from short distance too.