to prevent greifing, make it require 2 people to operate

Another solution to griefing is to have the direction of fire fixed to west or east depending on team

"Landmines, sounds pretty cool. make their colour a dark colour so it blends in with the dark browns in deep tunnels (closer to the surface the dirt is brighter, deep down its blacker) I believe first, grenades need a slight buff to throw distance, then people should have the option between 2 nades or 2 landmines at respawn left click places, right click is the arm/disarm.

Land mines should also be able to be exploded with grenades or artillery rounds "

Yes, artillery rounds should definitely explode mines. Then arty gets a new tactical role- clearing minefields in no-man's land (if an enemy got enough in the one spot).

You wouldn't even need to force a choice though- just give the player 2 nades and 2 mines on spawn. Like grenades there's no obligation to use them and most will die without using them anyway, but they'll always be there for when you need one or two.

@ryan, we've been over this, it would cause more problems than it would solve

@beret, I doubt many mines would be left for artillery, but the ability to explode mines would be a sub-feature

My Ideas
1. Immovable
2. Can only be destroyed via Pick or explosives
3. Firing rate is 1 shot every 1-2 minutes.
4. Ammo limit is 10. It re spawns (to 10) every half an hour.
5. The range is more of a "map look" as in, you can see around 200-300 blocks out top down.
6. They are placed 1 per team and cannot acually hit each other (out of range)
7.Looks beast.

I think it would be kind of cool if the two teams had to fight over one or two small artillery guns in the middle of the map

hmm Random48, I it would be a little unpractical to go for those as snipers would camp them, and you might die before using the artillery even once

Yeah putting Artillery pieces themselves anywhere near no man's land would make a meat grinder where nobody would even have the chance to use them.

I still like the fire by grid idea. If the gun just had a spot for one person to stand on next to it (nice and exposed, if you catch my drift) They get to designate a fire point. Once a spot is selected, a volley of vaguely accurate (randomised) shells rain down on that area, churning up the ground a bit but still possibly not getting an enemy at target ground zero.

so the artillery now looses a volley at a target?

I would have thought that to continually fire there needed to be a man operating it, perhaps not having to aim every shot, but just firing it in the same area, this way if you have 2 guns, perhaps some semblance of co-operation could be established as to timing your fire and the location you aim it.

Perhaps in the stance of at the base, the artillary piece is behind it, HMGs (can be place) on either side, and a plane in front? Now we will acually defend our bases!

Not sure if trolling or serious^

Well
HMGs are suggested
Ben said planes may be added
And this is about artillery.

I guess so.

Hoping this thread gets some fresh opinions (and that they read the first page to catch up on the discussion and not just say I THINK IT SHUD DO 1000 DAMAGE EVERYWURR)

OK for those not wanting to read the whole thread- the OP sums it up in a nutshell, but many points have popped up since. The major ones:

THE STORY SO FAR:

-We've had one suggestion for one in no mans land to fight over, but most people agree that would be a sniper's heaven and nobody would really get the chance to actually use them.

-1-3 artillery guns per side suggested, for multiple fires and targets for enemy saboteurs.

-early ideas surrounded manually aiming Arty, but firing by clicking on a map grid is now a lot more popular.

-It's widely accepted they'd need limited range, around half the map's worth, to prevent them being able to bring down enemy structures in the enemy spawn area.

-Long reload times are favoured, but there is debate about whether they fire a single shot at a time, or can fire a few times before a reload.

-The guns are immovable. Just about everybody agrees on that. A popular notion is that they always spawn near the back or Intel, much like each team's base.

-They are destroyable, to present a target of opportunity to the enemy, but rifles do not harm them. Grenades, picks, or other explosives must be used, point blank.

-Debate over whether it has it's own ammo (rifle style), or fires blocks collected and brought to it by players.

-Most believe someone should stand or sit on/in the piece to use it, in a spot exposed to enemy snipers.

-Artillery explosions larger than grenade blasts and remove more blocks. Possibly also creates a dirt ring for a 'crater' effect, that can additionally be used for cover by nearby troops.

-It is noted that artillery may make tunneling more attractive. Some suggestions to balance this have been put forward, most notably arty caving in tunnels beneath a hit, and landmines that can be placed in any block, and may be easier to spot (and remove with a spade/pick or detonated with grenade/arty) up on the surface and harder to spot down in the tunnels.

-Suggested that Artillery comes down as a barrage, an innaccurate volley that hits randomly in the grid where it was aimed. This makes it possible for a targeted enemy to survive the barrage if they keep their cool. Also allows for cinematic scenes of running through a barrage all around.

-If destroyed by enemy demolitions, an Artillery gun takes a good deal of time to respawn before it can be used again.

-Multiple people being needed for it to operate has been suggested, but in my experience in battlefield 1942, even a 2 man arty piece is doomed to fail because of human nature not wanting to work together on this kind of thing.

-'No Fire' Radius around the gun itself prevents friendly building griefing. It can only land shots outside the spawn zones.

-Looks beast. Or at least big. Possibly guarded with MG nest/s.

And that's it so far. One idea I had recently was that the Artillery guns, if not manned, will fire volleys at a random no-man's land grid maybe once every... say... minute or so. You enter the gun and click on a grid on the map, and the next volley goes there immediately, with the next shot reset to a minute away. In this way, a scout approaching an enemy base along the south or north border may come under fire, and it'd keep them guessing as they'd have to wonder if they had been spotted or if it was just a random barrage. I'm always in favour of things that keep players on their toes...

Also if there were 3 guns for example it could either land 15 shots if they're all there, 10 for 2 and 5 for only one left, though that would mean the enemy could tell by any barrage how many guns the team has left. An alternative is to let each available gun choose it's own grid for each random firing.

Also this would discourage useless building outside the spawnzone. Not only can anyone target your structure and attack it without even needing to go there, but it could even happen randomly, encouraging smaller, more useful bunker construction without forcing anyone.

Also since the fire comes down right from directly above, tall towers are still useful because a direct hit would only damage the top, not necessarily take out the base and bring the whole thing down, so large towers are still valid and economical.

I like the grid firing idea, but perhaps to deal with the griefing issue, grid squares can only be fired upon if there are no friendlies in them? That way a griefer would not be able to use an artillery gun on a friendly base, outside of the no-fire zone.

I like the idea of loading it with landmines/grenades, that way ammo supply is constant, just make the reload time slow, and the explosives a bit less effective.

It should not move, and there should be 1 per team, otherwise the spawn area would be cluttered, and there would be too many things to take care of (HQ, intel, tunnels, and 2 arties. Too much).

They should only be able to be destroyed by pickaxes or explosives, but not guns (to prevent easy sniping).

I also think that maybe if the enemy captures your intel, your artillery gun is rendered inoperable for the same amount of time that the enemy can see your locations? This would add some extra incentive to go for intel, so that once intel is captured, your team can make a purge to destroy the artillery gun.

The random firing thing is nice idea, but would eventually just end up terraforming the map, and I don't think building outside of the spawn should be entirely discouraged in such a way. Perhaps there could be some sort of firing queue? so that you can anticipate your enemies location. Or maybe just a 10-30 second delay between you activating the artillery gun, and it actually firing? That way you would have to use strategy, but not be able to just terraform the map as you see fit.

The problem with grid firing is that, without the proper limitations, 1 intel capture and 20 kills.

"I like the grid firing idea, but perhaps to deal with the griefing issue, grid squares can only be fired upon if there are no friendlies in them?"

Assuming that there's a delay between firing and the artillery coming down (to simulate the shell/s flight time) then not allowing firing on grids with friendlies would not guarantee their safety if they are moving. Also, if you wanted to lay down a barrage ahead of an enemy who was fleeing with the intel, not being able to do it just because friendlies were on that grid would be very, very frustrating.

If the fire was an innaccurate barrage as suggested above, there would be no guarantee that any particular target in a grid would be hit anyway. Getting killed by Artillery would be more like some kind of lotto (like it was in real life, in a way) so it would still be possible to build structures out in no mans land. Of course, getting more than one gun to fire on the same grid would increase the chances of a direct hit. That's a bonus for teamwork right there, but not teamwork that is essential for success, so it wouldn't be aggravating when teammates don't play along.

"The problem with grid firing is that, without the proper limitations, 1 intel capture and 20 kills. "

What do you mean by that?

I mean that that intel capture would reveal plenty of locations of the enemy. With that capture, 20 kills in the belt by firing at the red dots on the map.

Oh I see. Well we've already had suggestions about reload rates, time to fire etc. If we had each gun fire only once a minute, that allows for only one salvo at the enemy per gun before they dissappear off the radar again.

Well most people don't move too much if they're held down at a position.

I must admit my preference was towards, relatively quick fire rate (about one shot per 10) but a comparatively long reload to have a man made salvo rather than click here artillery bombs the shit out of it

Who said anything about them being 'held down' though? If they knew their intel had been captured they'd probably be on the move anyway.

So Toast, you're against the grid fire, I'm guessing? your post is a bit vague about what you do and don't like.

What I'm saying is that if they run back out of range, we could do advaces towards them. Eventually you could just isolate them to one area with your foxholes underground.

This is a shameless bump for the sole reason of stopping even more new threads on same subjects pop up just because the search bar isn't being used. Apologies for those that have already read this thread.

What I'm saying is that if they run back out of range, we could do advaces towards them. Eventually you could just isolate them to one area with your foxholes underground.

Not if the artillery range is only about 2/3rds of the map width as suggested.

BUMP!

BUMP

Mortars, anyone? You could have a mortar guy with a mortar launcher and a pistol. Then most of the needs for "artillery" would be met, and most of the complexities of having a powerful multi-user weapon system would be avoided.

I could agree to that. One mortar per team. Just don't know how the ammo would work. Perhaps collected from various areas of the map or earned from kills or intel collection?

I was thinking of something that would take the place of the SMG or the rifle, with ammo working the same way. It'd be like a trebuchet in Age of Empires II, in that it takes a while to set up before you can fire it and you have to pack it back up before you can move again.

Mortar IRL

I love that Russian guy. He sounds all Slavic and stuff, but uses awesome sentence structure.